Sept. 3, 2025

David Thomas Tao

David Thomas Tao
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Goodpods podcast player badge
Audible podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge
Podchaser podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Goodpods podcast player icon Audible podcast player icon iHeartRadio podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon

David Tao returns to the show to take us inside the world of theater production and spirits (not the BOO!) kind. Following up his role as the successful CEO of Barbend.com, David has taken on two new roles he’s passionate about: producing theater in New York, and writing about spirits – primarily whiskey and bourbon. He discusses the role of a producer and gives us an inside view of the process of selecting and developing a show for the stage. He also gives tips on how to find out spirits you enjoy, and how to develop a discerning palate (and have fun while doing it).

You can find David on Instagram @davidthomastao https://www.instagram.com/davidthomastao and on X @d-tao https://x.com/d_tao. Give him a follow. He's got great content every day. 

Join our Discord for free at goodcompanydiscord.com!

Check out our gym (Third Street Barbell) at ThirdStreetBarbell.com https://www.thirdstreetbarbell.com/!

50% Facts is a Spreaker Prime podcast on OCN – the Obscure Celebrity Network.

Check out our podcast website: 50percentfacts.com https://www.50percentfacts.com/

____   Hosted by Mike Farr (@silentmikke) https://www.instagram.com/silentmikke/ and Jim McDonald (@thejimmcd). https://www.instagram.com/thejimmcd/ Produced by Jim McDonald Production assistance by Sam McDonald and Sebastian Brambila. Theme by Aaron Moore. Show art by Joseph Manzo (@jmanzo523)



Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/50-facts-with-silent-mike-jim-mcd--5538735/support.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:14.880
Okay, now we're prepared to be live. Oh boy, you

2
00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:16.199
got quiet again for a second.

3
00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:20.199
It's just because I'm nervous. I'm not actually nervous.

4
00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:22.559
It's like, why would you be nervous?

5
00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:23.679
Yeah, I'm fine.

6
00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:30.399
I'm going to just recap my current situation because Tanner

7
00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:34.119
from Massonomics texted me the other day and said it, did.

8
00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:37.359
Mike move or where's Mike? And I'm like, Mike is?

9
00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:39.840
I think Mike is actually in Hawaii today. I think

10
00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:43.679
he's been in Texas or whatever. He's training the streamer

11
00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:47.399
named Agent zero through the end of the year, so

12
00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:51.200
he has not been around, which is why I have

13
00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:53.679
been reaching out to my friends and anybody that I'm

14
00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:56.079
interested in talking to and saying, hey, how about coming

15
00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:58.200
on the podcast and talking to me so that I

16
00:00:58.200 --> 00:00:59.960
can keep it going because no one is going to

17
00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:02.679
want to listen to me. Just talk to myself.

18
00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:07.439
I would listen to that for longer than most would.

19
00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:10.000
I don't know how long you'd keep me on, but

20
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:10.920
but longer than me.

21
00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:13.000
But you're my friend, and so that has something to

22
00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:15.200
do with it. I would assume I would. I don't know.

23
00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:19.640
I don't know, so I'm on here with David Tao,

24
00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:24.359
somebody who used to be firmly rooted in the fitness

25
00:01:24.359 --> 00:01:27.400
world who is now not and probably gratefully.

26
00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:34.040
So I think I ran so fast and far away

27
00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:36.239
from the fitness world that I got in better shape

28
00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:39.519
doing it. Oh yeah, basically, you know, like it was.

29
00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:45.400
I was just like it has changed my relationship with

30
00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:50.079
wellness and I'm I'm just much healthier now that I'm

31
00:01:50.079 --> 00:01:52.239
not in the fitness space. And I hate to say it,

32
00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:55.959
I'm not the only person that's happened to.

33
00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:00.719
I believe that, you know, I believe that for sure.

34
00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:07.640
So so you you ran towards other interests that that

35
00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:10.719
it is a really good reason to talk to you

36
00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:14.439
at this point. I think that my audience is probably

37
00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:18.840
particularly interested in the spirit's aspect, but I want to

38
00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:24.120
talk broadway too, because like that is a that is

39
00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:27.240
a base that needs to still be developed, Like fitness

40
00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:30.800
people appreciating what happens on stage.

41
00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:36.919
I appreciate that. I would like to say that's I

42
00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:39.319
think there is a lot of crossover between like physical

43
00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:43.759
culture and live performance. Yeah, and I think that that's

44
00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:46.919
hopefully an interest we can like cross pollinated. But we'll see,

45
00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:49.599
you know, if this is your worst performing episode.

46
00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:50.879
Of all time, it will be.

47
00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:52.520
That's a good data point.

48
00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.240
It's it's good to know, but it's probably not gonna

49
00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:58.960
be the case at all. Okay, So I know you

50
00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:04.080
were just at Fringe Festival, which is I think I

51
00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:06.400
told you on my bucket list of things to do.

52
00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:10.840
I love Edinburgh and I've been to the to the

53
00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:13.560
what is it just for laughs in Montreal. I've yes

54
00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:16.159
been to that one. And that's fun. That's a lot

55
00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:17.759
of fun. Just you can just sort of walk around

56
00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:19.639
from show to show practically.

57
00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:25.960
Fringe is Fringe is interesting because I I didn't I

58
00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:29.080
didn't have an intense viewing schedule, like I went there

59
00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:33.000
for specific like work things. Yeah, some people see nine

60
00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:33.840
shows a day.

61
00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:34.759
Oh my lord.

62
00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:36.680
I talked to people who were like, oh yeah, I

63
00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:39.879
saw eight shows yesterday. I'm seeing nine shows Today's amazing.

64
00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:43.919
It is. There are like over three thousand individual shows,

65
00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:49.039
not over three thousand individual performances, three thousand like different shows.

66
00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:54.639
Oh my god, you can see. It is insane, absolutely

67
00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:56.039
insane in a good way, I think.

68
00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:01.680
Yeah. I mean I when I was there, we saw

69
00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:03.879
a stand up show, kind of a very long stand

70
00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.400
up show in one of the venues, and it was

71
00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:11.680
you know, it was people who routinely perform during Fringe,

72
00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:14.840
because why wouldn't they write, They'd live there, so like

73
00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:17.639
they have the ability to put on, you know, whatever

74
00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:19.399
comedy they want to at any.

75
00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:21.079
Time they want to, I assume.

76
00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:24.360
But you were there specifically to see or to be

77
00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:25.480
with a particular show.

78
00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:29.720
Yeah, that's correct. I was not there the whole time.

79
00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:33.519
I was there the last the final week, and the

80
00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:35.720
final week is the easiest time if you're producing. And

81
00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:38.560
I was producing a show, and I fortunately had a

82
00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:40.399
team that went over there because I was closing down

83
00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:43.600
a different show we had here in New York. Yeah,

84
00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:45.600
and so they went over and started. And the first

85
00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:47.720
part of Fringe is really tough because if you're going

86
00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:50.040
for the first time, you have to fight to stand out.

87
00:04:50.759 --> 00:04:53.519
So you're like handing out flyers, You're trying to get

88
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:56.439
butts in seats, You're convincing people to come see your show.

89
00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:58.759
And if you're a performer, you might have like one

90
00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:01.240
hundred person venue and you might be performing to ten

91
00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:04.639
people your first few shows, because like just word of

92
00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:07.800
mouth really matters. So by the time I got there,

93
00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:10.680
the show was already selling out. It was already by

94
00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:12.600
all accounts, a hit. It was one of the best

95
00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:15.120
reviewed shows of Fringe. And people were coming up to

96
00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:16.519
me and they're like, oh my god, you're a producer

97
00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:23.920
for the show. Congratulations, And I'm like, yep, thank you,

98
00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:26.079
I thank thank you.

99
00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:28.839
I've been here working my ass off in spirit.

100
00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:32.519
Yes I didn't. I didn't hand out a single flyer

101
00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:36.040
the entire time I was there. But it's a testament too.

102
00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:38.279
It's a show that we helped develop here in New York,

103
00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:42.600
and so, you know, the show we knew was great,

104
00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:46.480
and it was just convincing enough people to come see

105
00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:48.120
it and then post about it and it be a

106
00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:50.439
word of mouth thing to where by the last week

107
00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:53.000
people are like trying to you know, trying to buy

108
00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:55.240
tickets off people in line. Like that's how the regular

109
00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:58.720
it was. So yeah, word to the wise, if you're

110
00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:02.439
producing it Fringe, just make sure it's a hit before

111
00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:06.279
you show up. Yeah, exactly, way to do it, great time.

112
00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:08.759
Yeah, and just be careful not to break your arm

113
00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:11.399
patting yourself on the back when yeah, when all the

114
00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:17.959
accolades roll in, right exactly. So producing stuff's easy, you

115
00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:21.680
you know, it's I know you've produced several shows in

116
00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:26.519
sort of different levels of participation in in in producing,

117
00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:29.600
like what what does that actually look like on a

118
00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:30.639
practical level.

119
00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:33.600
The best thing, thank you for asking, Jim. The best

120
00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:34.959
thing I could like in it too, is like every

121
00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:39.399
show is a little startup, and startups are always different, right,

122
00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:43.399
Like the goal with some startups in theatrical production is

123
00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:44.439
that you grow it, and you go it and you

124
00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:46.759
grow it and then it goes to Broadway, right, right,

125
00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:48.920
And that's kind of like your That's like the closest

126
00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:52.160
thing to an IPO, right for like a company, it's

127
00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:55.120
like this big it's like your your your public offering,

128
00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:57.720
and sometimes public offerings go really well and you have

129
00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:01.360
a hit, and sometimes public offerings don't go well, and

130
00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:03.959
it depends on Because producing, you can get involved with

131
00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:08.040
the different stages. So I've been involved with some lovely

132
00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:10.680
Broadway shows that have done quite well. And I come

133
00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:13.639
on like while the show is already you know, part

134
00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:16.360
way through the show's life cycle, and I might be

135
00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:18.360
responsible for some of the marketing, or I might be

136
00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:20.600
responsible for part of the capitol.

137
00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:21.160
Race that's needed.

138
00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:23.319
You're pretty much always responsible for part of the capital race.

139
00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:26.360
Yeah, that's how you get to do the other stuff, right,

140
00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:30.519
So how you becoming the conversation table exactly.

141
00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:33.879
Oftentimes if you're co producing on Broadway, you're just raising money.

142
00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:37.560
You're just responsible for the budget for something like this.

143
00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:38.959
This is a show, the show we took to French

144
00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.600
as a show called Whole. It's a musical, and the

145
00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:46.800
premise is, and it's performed entirely by the two people

146
00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:48.800
who wrote it. They perform every role, and they play

147
00:07:48.839 --> 00:07:51.240
all the instruments, some of which they found in the trash.

148
00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:52.800
It's great.

149
00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:55.800
And then the premise is that there's a cult in

150
00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:57.959
Nebraska that believes they have to wear butt plugs at

151
00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:00.600
all time or else God will suck them up and

152
00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:03.160
burn them on the surface of the sun. And it

153
00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:05.639
turns out that basically comes true. So the only people

154
00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:08.680
left on earth are this cult and anyone else who

155
00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:11.199
happened to be wearing a butt plug. And then like

156
00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:12.959
that's like the start of the plot, and then like

157
00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:16.040
the plot goes from there. It is brilliant and genius

158
00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:18.800
and it's like not actually what people think it is.

159
00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:21.279
It's like not really gross, it's it's it is a

160
00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:23.879
bit versical but it's also like got a lot of

161
00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:26.439
heart and it's a coming of age story, and you

162
00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:28.399
watch the audience and like by the end, people are

163
00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.360
crying a because they're laughing, but also B because it's

164
00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:33.639
like really touching and sweet and there's a lot of

165
00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:35.600
Catharsis in it, and people are like, Oh my god,

166
00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:38.279
I like I really connected with the characters, which is

167
00:08:38.279 --> 00:08:41.639
insane to say about a butt plug musical, but that's

168
00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:45.399
one where I got involved as a producer from the

169
00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.080
earliest stages. So my one of my production partners and

170
00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:51.399
I were the lead producers, so we were like helping

171
00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:54.120
to develop that from you know, before it had ever

172
00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:58.200
been performed, like truly been performed. They'd had like a

173
00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:00.600
like a they'd performed for some friends, but like the

174
00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:03.519
first like ticketed, paid performance, we were you know, we

175
00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:07.000
were like, we think this has commercial potential. We're going

176
00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:10.960
to try and like actually help develop it. So getting

177
00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:14.840
them rehearsal spaces, working with the director, like giving suggestions

178
00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:18.440
with the creative and then gradually performing it at slightly

179
00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:21.080
bigger and bigger venues in New York City until I

180
00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:23.519
was like, oh, we can take this to fringe and

181
00:09:23.559 --> 00:09:25.879
then raising the money so that they could actually go

182
00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:28.919
to fringe, because you have to pay these people right

183
00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:32.960
as deservedly, so you know they deserve it, finding them

184
00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:35.759
a place to stay, like marketing it, figuring out how

185
00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:41.080
you produce a show overseas, and then trying to gradually

186
00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.360
build and build and build. So we were kind of

187
00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:46.600
involved from the very beginning and have been basically the

188
00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:49.799
executives driving the ship. And as the show gets bigger,

189
00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:52.279
we may have to bring on additional producers to bring

190
00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:57.559
on more capital or more connections or just expand the team.

191
00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:03.000
But it's amazing. Yeah, it's by a duo called American

192
00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:03.639
Sing Song.

193
00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:04.879
Okay as.

194
00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:10.480
They're American sing Song on Instagram. They're fantastic Jake and Naudia.

195
00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:15.440
I think they're absolutely brilliant geniuses. They're hilarious, they're kind,

196
00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:20.320
they're smart, and that's like just a rare trifecta that

197
00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:25.279
you get, yeah, in in people who are just very

198
00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:27.000
and people that you get to work with, Like in life,

199
00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:28.279
how often do you get to work with people who

200
00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:29.039
are all those things?

201
00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:29.279
Right?

202
00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:30.360
Not often enough?

203
00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:34.120
Not often? And the director's awesome, his name's RJ. So

204
00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:38.159
a real dream to produce something that like people looked

205
00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:40.159
at us like we were crazy a year ago when

206
00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:42.240
we were like, oh, we're going to probably produce this

207
00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:43.120
butt plug musical.

208
00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:46.879
People are like to tell them it's like Wally but

209
00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:49.720
but but sort of but.

210
00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:53.399
But honestly, there's actually a lot of there are more

211
00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:56.360
Wally comparisons. If you've seen the show. I know you haven't,

212
00:10:56.600 --> 00:10:58.840
ha like, but if you see the show, you're like, wait,

213
00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:00.720
they are actually a lot of Wally Can Garrisons here.

214
00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:04.519
So we're trying to figure it. We're likely going to

215
00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:08.840
take the show to London this fall and or perform

216
00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:10.919
it at different venues in New York this fall. So

217
00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:13.720
all that to say, theater production is like starting a

218
00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:17.759
company and you have to figure out how big you

219
00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:19.960
want your company to be, right, Like, do you want

220
00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:23.120
your company to grow and be this big thing that's

221
00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:26.559
like at the highest tier, which is like Broadway or

222
00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:30.759
the West End, or you know, is it a company

223
00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:33.320
that maybe it's like a lifestyle business, right, Maybe you're

224
00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.080
not trying to create this big behemoth, right, Maybe you

225
00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:40.120
think that it will do better if it does not

226
00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:46.039
go to a thousand seat venue, right, So the top

227
00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:47.600
I think one of the toughest parts about theater is

228
00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:51.639
if you have something that's successful, figuring out what is

229
00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:54.799
the top level it can be successful at. Because sometimes

230
00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:58.000
you will have a hit off Broadway or off off

231
00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:00.320
Broadway or in a different market and you take it

232
00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.720
to Broadway which costs millions and millions of dollars and

233
00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:04.320
it flops.

234
00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:05.200
Yeah.

235
00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:08.480
Right, And I think a lot of this is figuring

236
00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:11.480
out like what is the right audience and for what

237
00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:12.039
you're producing.

238
00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:14.720
I mean that's true of any any startup of any kind.

239
00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:17.360
It's basically you just have no idea. You go on

240
00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:19.639
your gut and you have no no idea. I know

241
00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:23.279
you've talked in the in the past offline about that

242
00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:26.720
that magical metric of of you know, what people are,

243
00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:28.480
what people spend.

244
00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:29.759
Per ticket.

245
00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:32.879
Atp average ticket price.

246
00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:37.320
Yeah, yeah, and that's like that that could be difficult

247
00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:40.200
to estimate. I would imagine it is.

248
00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:41.879
I mean, it depends on the venue, It depends on

249
00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:44.519
how expensive things are, like the whole whole. We're really

250
00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:48.720
lucky because musicals tend to be really expensive because music

251
00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:51.759
is like plays tend to be cheaper. You add music

252
00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:55.039
and it tends to be more expensive. All the music

253
00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:58.039
is performed by these two brilliant people who are playing

254
00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:02.600
instruments while they're acting like it's it's really a rare thing.

255
00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:05.679
So it's ultimately, you know, you don't have to pay

256
00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:08.279
for at least in this version, we're not paying for

257
00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:11.840
a full band or a full orchestra. Right, it's the

258
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:15.759
two of them. Now, that's that's rare, and that's also

259
00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:19.759
part of the charm. So you know, the question for

260
00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:21.639
us becomes, well, is there a version of this where

261
00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:25.559
it's like a much bigger team on stage? I don't know, right,

262
00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:28.559
these are these are all things we questions we have

263
00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:33.279
to answer, but I kind of completely forgot what the

264
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:34.320
question was.

265
00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:37.480
I think you've you've you've pretty much said I. It's

266
00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.440
just how you figure out like what that what that

267
00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:42.039
average ticket price is going to be? Like what what?

268
00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:44.320
What are people going to be willing to pay for it?

269
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:48.960
At which level of uh of of venue?

270
00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:52.399
I guess right, thank you, thank you for guiding me back.

271
00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:54.519
You can lead a horse to water and he'll just

272
00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:55.639
walk away. Multiple times.

273
00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:57.200
I've been doing this in a minute.

274
00:13:57.240 --> 00:13:59.840
So it's it's you have a little experience you've recorded

275
00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:03.440
or too. Average ticket price is kind of everything, because

276
00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.960
like I've been involved with shows that sold really well,

277
00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:12.759
sold most of their tickets, but people weren't willing to

278
00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:15.679
pay a lot per ticket and the show did not

279
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:19.320
do that well financially. And then I've been involved with

280
00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:22.600
shows in much smaller theaters so we didn't have to

281
00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:25.600
sell that many tickets, but people were willing to pay

282
00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:27.799
a lot of money per ticket and the show did

283
00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:29.679
really well. So it's not just about like are you

284
00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:34.519
filling up your house? It's how are you monetizing every

285
00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:38.240
person who's coming through the door. Yeah, right, because you

286
00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:40.320
can have a Broadway house that might be fifteen hundred

287
00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:42.360
seats and if you fill it up, that's great, But

288
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.159
if people are only paying forty bucks per ticket, you're

289
00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:48.679
going to be losing money. Right. But if you know,

290
00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:51.120
if you have a much smaller theater and people are

291
00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:54.320
paying two hundred bucks per ticket, you're probably going to

292
00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:55.840
be doing pretty well and your costs are going to

293
00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:58.759
be a lot lower. So it's a metric that is

294
00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.720
like it's a popularity contest, but it's also like what

295
00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:05.320
are people willing to do and where is that price.

296
00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.080
Threshold you Obviously I haven't said it so far, but

297
00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:11.320
people who know who you are know that you were

298
00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:16.159
a very successful founding CEO of Barbend dot com and

299
00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:20.679
transitioned away from that when when the company was sold

300
00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:27.639
and moved into this what You obviously have a pretty

301
00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:34.919
good gut for figuring out what's going to work. Do

302
00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:40.559
you ever push forward when everything else seems to say

303
00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:43.360
that that there's success on the horizon your gut is

304
00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:44.000
a little.

305
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:49.240
I mean, I mean I've produced some things over the

306
00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:52.159
last couple of years that did not do well, so

307
00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.639
my gut is not always right. Yeah, I have Also,

308
00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:00.639
I think the best example is like I, I have

309
00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:05.519
committed to things and believed in things that I should

310
00:16:05.559 --> 00:16:08.480
have gone full bore into. It's easier to have regrets

311
00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:10.200
for the things that you you're like, wow, I do

312
00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:12.360
like I went a little bit into this, but I

313
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:15.320
should have just like put all the chips in. An

314
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:17.759
example is a show that I co produced on Broadway

315
00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:22.200
called Oh Mary, which is a wildly successful show yeah

316
00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.600
Broadway by any metric, by literally any metric like awards,

317
00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:30.279
won reviews, given, money made, and I co produced it,

318
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:32.279
so I believed in the show, and I actually also invested,

319
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:34.039
so I also put some of my own money into it,

320
00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:36.960
and in addition to just to raising money from others.

321
00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:42.600
And I look back on that and I'm like, I

322
00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:46.480
should have put all my money into that. I didn't

323
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:48.279
put it like every cent I had into that, because

324
00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:52.279
that has been a great, a great hit. But at

325
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.960
the same time, it was also a non traditional play.

326
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.960
It was also very much a non traditional show to

327
00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.919
take to Broadway, and it was considered I think a

328
00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:04.039
lot of people would have considered it very risky. At

329
00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:06.640
the same time, we knew, like the first week it opened,

330
00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:07.880
that this was going to be a hint that was

331
00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:11.519
like audiences just responded so, well, it's tough. It's no

332
00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:13.119
one gets it right one hundred percent of the time.

333
00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:17.119
I don't think there's a single career producer who has

334
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:21.519
like really taken swings and really like believed in creative

335
00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:23.759
that hasn't gotten it wrong a time or two.

336
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:28.359
Yeah, I would say with oh, Mary, like just from

337
00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:30.759
the outside, having talked to you about it before it

338
00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:32.799
before it came to fruition.

339
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:33.359
That.

340
00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:37.720
I thought it was a real gamble and I thought

341
00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:40.759
it would it. I thought it had a pretty good

342
00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:43.640
chance of success, but it also there was a real

343
00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:46.039
chance that people just would not get it. And then

344
00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:48.880
once I saw it, oh no, I understand why people

345
00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:51.559
get it. It works on a lot of different levels.

346
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.359
And probably the biggest surprise of the whole thing to.

347
00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:59.119
Me was that Cole A.

348
00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:03.680
Skola, who wrote it and was the original Mary Todd Lincoln,

349
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.720
people are not gonna know. This is like a purely

350
00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:13.119
fictional story about Mary Todd Lincoln being an alcoholic and

351
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:19.480
an absolute brat and someone completely disengaged from everything that's

352
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:22.200
going on in the White House and wants to be

353
00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:23.000
a cabaret star.

354
00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:25.839
And I.

355
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:32.640
That character is so fully formed that you are not

356
00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:37.759
ever distracted by the fact that that Cole's pronouns are

357
00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.480
they them? You never get that at all. And you've

358
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.920
had you've had men and women play that character since

359
00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:49.200
since Cole's you know, Cole left for a while, came

360
00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.960
back pre Tony's, and then is off.

361
00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:53.599
Now I just saw that.

362
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:58.599
Jane Krakowski is coming on as a Mary, and I realized.

363
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:00.359
This is this is a Chicago.

364
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:04.599
With some of the same cast members.

365
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:07.440
Actually, yeah, way, it's a Chicago for people who don't know.

366
00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:10.720
Chicago has been running on Broadway forever, and the way

367
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:15.480
they refresh it is by bringing in you know, name talent,

368
00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:20.559
people with broad appeal from TV movies or whatever to

369
00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:23.960
come in and play key roles, and it just keeps

370
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.160
it rolling and rolling and rolling. I imagine that o'mary

371
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:29.160
could run forever.

372
00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:32.839
I hope it does. I think that I give a

373
00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:35.839
lot of credit to the lead producers who originally put

374
00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:37.599
the package it and put it together and brought other

375
00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:43.559
producers like myself on because they see casting potential here.

376
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:45.440
It's a little I will say the thing, I think

377
00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:48.079
Chicago's a great comparison. I think the thing that it

378
00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:51.279
does maybe better than It's a different thing. I don't

379
00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:52.799
want to compare. I don't want to say better than Chicago,

380
00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:54.680
because Chicago's doing a very different thing and that's not

381
00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:59.000
fair to necessarily compare. But this character is so outlandish,

382
00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.440
and this performance is so can be so dialed up

383
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:05.000
to eleven out of ten or twelve out of ten.

384
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.880
It's almost a challenge to cast members to say, like

385
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:10.920
can you bring it?

386
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:11.759
Yeah?

387
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:15.039
Like what what can you like? What? What is your

388
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:17.240
what is your what are you bringing here? Because you

389
00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:19.880
can do this completely different Everyone who performs this role

390
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:24.400
does it differently. What is your what is your twelve

391
00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:27.799
out of ten, and it's a very demanding role. But

392
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:29.799
I think it's a if I were an actor of

393
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:32.400
that caliber, I would I would be tempted because it's

394
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:35.359
almost a challenge, right, It's like what is.

395
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:37.640
My most Yeah, it's one of those things you would

396
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:40.680
go into it and you would you would shoot for

397
00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:42.960
the for the moan, and you would wait for somebody

398
00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:44.119
to tell you you've gone too far.

399
00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:45.039
Right.

400
00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:49.039
And the director Sam Pinkleton, who is phenomenal and I've

401
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:53.000
gotten to know you know decently well through this process.

402
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:57.519
I I don't know if Sam would ever rain someone

403
00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:01.440
in from their twelve, but Sam would would channel that.

404
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:03.599
Exam would say like, this is how we're going to

405
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:06.880
channel that. What's not like dim your light, let's just

406
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:12.640
focus it this way. So, yeah, it's been, that's been.

407
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:16.160
That's what I listen that, that's that's If they could

408
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:18.400
all be like that, this would be a very different conversation.

409
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:21.039
Yeah, you probably would have time to talk to me.

410
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:24.039
I just yeah, I'd be like we'd be on a

411
00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:28.079
we'd be on a very large boat, a very very

412
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:32.119
large boat. I think it's just an example of one

413
00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:36.359
thing I like about entertainment. Is that it is subjective

414
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:43.519
and it is impossible to predict with one accuracy. I

415
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:47.880
I liken O Mary to the cult horror film, and

416
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.599
I think that's that's an imperfect that's an imperfect comparison.

417
00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:55.240
But like every year, every other year, there's a horror

418
00:21:55.240 --> 00:22:00.240
film that just gets a cult following, right, and you're like,

419
00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:05.000
how did that happen? Or I couldn't have predicted that necessarily,

420
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:08.359
Or there's like a thriller and oh Mary became that

421
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.599
on stage, like the like the movie Megan, which now

422
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.440
has a sequel, Megan was actually really big and very

423
00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:15.880
popular in the queer community.

424
00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:18.640
Uh huh, which oh Mary has to be right.

425
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.839
Which oh Mary Omary definitely, But Omry's like transcendent. Omary's

426
00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:26.000
popular in every The variety of people we get in

427
00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:28.640
to see the show is phenomenal, Right, It's just like

428
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:31.880
everyone's trying to figure out, like it's very interesting to see,

429
00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:35.440
like how who told whom what that got them in

430
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:36.680
the in this theater?

431
00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:39.359
Yeah, Actually back up and say, it's not when I

432
00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:40.920
saw it that I was pretty sure it was going

433
00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:44.400
to be a hit. It was when my friend Nick Scopoletti,

434
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:48.680
who was friends with Lisa Lampinelli, who saw it off Broadway,

435
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.839
saw that it was coming to Broadway, and she told him, look,

436
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:55.279
we're going to see this show. I'm going to get

437
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:57.839
the tickets. Ven Momy, We're going you have to see.

438
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.839
It's the funniest thing I've ever seen. And somebody, you know,

439
00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.319
with with as many years of experience and comedy as

440
00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:07.880
Lisa and lamp Binelle says that then it works. It's

441
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.240
going to have to work, right, Just the only open

442
00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:13.119
question being how many people is it going.

443
00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:13.480
To work for?

444
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:18.000
Yeah? And that's a I think that is ultimately the

445
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:22.319
question for any anyone who tries to build a product, right,

446
00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:24.720
And like a theater show, a play, a musical, it's

447
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.839
a product if you put a lot of work into something,

448
00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:31.920
and if you're a creative or producer and you're building

449
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:34.279
it even just for yourself, like it's going to have

450
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.200
an audience, the question is how big is that audience

451
00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:38.920
and how much are you committing and how big do

452
00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:40.480
you need that audience to be for it to be

453
00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:41.079
a success.

454
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:42.400
Yeah?

455
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:44.559
Right, So if you have if you have a podcast

456
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:49.319
that is you and a good buddy, and the overhead

457
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:52.079
is relatively low and it's maybe not necessarily your full

458
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:56.160
time job. And you find, you know, a thousand listeners

459
00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:00.759
an episode for a lot of people, that's awesome. Yeah,

460
00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:05.319
that's great, right, like amazing. But if you're a major

461
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:08.799
media studio, in a major podcasting studio, and you're hiring

462
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:11.680
hosts and you're paying people, and you're you have all

463
00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:13.839
these this overhead and it costs twenty thousand dollars to

464
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:20.839
produce an episode and you have a thousand listeners total, yeah,

465
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:23.960
it's a little bit less of a success by that metric, right.

466
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:28.119
So I think that it's what is the size of

467
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:32.319
the audience that you need relative to the effort and

468
00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:33.480
your goals.

469
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:36.000
It's like a break even analysis really in a lot

470
00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:38.759
of ways. Yeah, just like a you know, an audience,

471
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:40.680
what's my audience size?

472
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:43.599
What can I hope to capture.

473
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.000
In that regard? I have seen live seen three of

474
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:51.480
the shows that you produced, and then saw the Good

475
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:55.319
Night and good Luck live broadcast, which was amazing.

476
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:59.920
Also, what's your favorite thing that you've worked on?

477
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:04.039
I wish I could take any credit for the creative

478
00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:05.559
behind good Night and good Luck, Just to just to

479
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:07.759
be clear, I don't want to misrepresent. Yeah, I could

480
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:10.400
take zero credit for the creative work on that. I

481
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:16.279
think it was a really brilliant collaboration between George Grant

482
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:19.359
and the director David Cromer, who I gotta spend some

483
00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:22.599
time with recently and who just I think is absolutely brilliant.

484
00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:24.519
If you're ever in New York and David Cromer is

485
00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:28.680
directing a piece of theater, like go see it. It's

486
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:35.720
my advice, my favorite thing. It might be whole. It

487
00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:38.039
might be this thing we do because because we don't

488
00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:39.960
know where it's gonna go yet, Like we have thoughts

489
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:42.519
and we have plans, and we don't know, we don't

490
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:44.400
know ultimately where.

491
00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:46.039
It's ripe with promise.

492
00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:50.960
Still it's ripe with promise. It's it's different, and it's

493
00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:53.400
the sort of thing that like we saw, we like

494
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.799
picked it out early and we're like, we're gonna, We're gonna,

495
00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:58.960
we want to produce that. Like I remember the meeting

496
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:01.279
we had with the creative we took them out for

497
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:04.359
coffee and at the end I remember saying, like, cool,

498
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:07.160
we really want to produce whole, Like connect us with

499
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:08.920
your if you're if you're if you're amenable to that,

500
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:10.559
if that's something you'd like to explore connect us with

501
00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:13.359
your reps and like we'll negotiate that, but we'd really

502
00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:15.200
like to produce it. And they were just like.

503
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:21.160
Huh what she's being what.

504
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:22.200
What like, Oh, we'd like to produce hold. They're like,

505
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.279
we thought you We did not Like, that's not where

506
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:28.039
we necessarily thought this was gonna We thought you were

507
00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:29.799
being nice and grabbing us coffee, but like we didn't

508
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:32.119
really necessarily think this conversation was going to end with

509
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:33.920
like an offer to and they were thrilled yeah, and

510
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:35.680
then like they wanted to go to fringe. We were like, cool,

511
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:37.440
we can, we can make that happen. And they're like,

512
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.599
oh wait really, oh okay cool, And it's this this

513
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.200
is this like nice intersection of what we want to

514
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.480
do with them and what they want for what they've built,

515
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:50.440
and it's just it just feels really good. So we're

516
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:52.200
kind of in this honeymoon stage right now where we

517
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:54.440
just had a great run and we're trying to see

518
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:57.000
like where it can go next, and there's all this

519
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:00.119
promise and possibility, and it feels like a kid who

520
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:02.599
just graduated high school and did really well and has

521
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.480
a lot of college offers and gets to like pick

522
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:11.599
and choose. So yeah, it's this, it's this fun in

523
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:14.880
between stage right now. And also it's just so different.

524
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:17.200
It's so radically different than anything else I've worked on,

525
00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:19.559
and getting to work on it soup to nuts and

526
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.920
like every little detail, right, like getting to talk to

527
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:26.119
the director about like ooh, this costume switch, we should

528
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:28.319
do it here, we should do it this way, or like,

529
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:32.359
you know, maybe this dance move they do because there's

530
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:34.000
like a little bit there's movement in it. It should

531
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:37.240
be like maybe a little different here, talking like the

532
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.200
pre show playlist, the number of conversations we've had as

533
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:43.200
a team about the pre show play I get that,

534
00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:47.559
and like getting and and that just makes it special,

535
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:51.279
right because like if I'm brought onto something while like

536
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:56.160
on its way to Broadway, I'm not usually helping out

537
00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:59.519
with the pre show playlist. I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, right,

538
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:01.960
But like at that point, the team's pretty big. There

539
00:28:01.960 --> 00:28:04.079
are like people for that, But at this point, I'm like, cool,

540
00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:05.240
here's what I think we should do.

541
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:09.039
Yeah, people don't get how important that is. I mean there,

542
00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:11.720
I've seen several shows in the last few years that

543
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:17.039
the pre show even had actors on stage, like I

544
00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:20.880
saw We saw Red in the West End a few

545
00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:24.319
years ago with Alfred Molina and he comes out on

546
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:27.200
stage and sits in a chair essentially with his sort

547
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:30.000
of sort of three quarter back, like you know, he's

548
00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:32.400
he's not facing the audience at all. You can see

549
00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:35.039
him in a little bit in profile if you're you know,

550
00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:37.960
on the right hand side of the house and.

551
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.480
Smokes cigarettes for fifteen twenty.

552
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.920
Minutes before the show starts, and it really sets the

553
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:48.640
attitude of that character before before.

554
00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:50.200
The first line is ever spoken.

555
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:53.880
And I imagine that the pre show music, well I've

556
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:57.240
certainly seen that and experienced that in different with different shows.

557
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:00.519
It does a lot to set the tone, the mood

558
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:04.519
and the expectation and the audience like this is you know,

559
00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:06.480
open your mind to what you're going to see.

560
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:13.079
It just going back to Oh Mary, the O Mary

561
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:18.119
pre show music is maybe the best thing on Broadway

562
00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:20.839
right now. Like the pre show playlist what you can

563
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:23.359
find on Spotify. Oh really it's great, Yeah, you can

564
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:25.319
find it. The O Mary pre show playlist is just

565
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:27.640
maybe the best and it just sets the tones so well.

566
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:30.319
And like now, when when I go to see the

567
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:32.480
show or when when like I take people to the

568
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:33.839
show who've seen it before and they want to see

569
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:35.519
a new cast member, they want to see it again.

570
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:38.400
They're like, cool, let's make sure we get there early

571
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:43.720
so that we can get the full pre show playlist.

572
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:47.160
Yeah, yeah, right, that makes sense.

573
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:54.359
In taking a show like that to Fringe. Did you

574
00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:58.400
have any insight given to you about like what the

575
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:02.839
audience expectations might be, because like, humor in Scotland is different,

576
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:04.359
having seen stand up there.

577
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:07.640
It totally. I don't want to give too much away

578
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:10.759
and I don't want to be in scendiaria on this podcast,

579
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:13.759
but I have I have an example. It's something we

580
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:15.480
had flagged. So we did it in New York a

581
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:17.960
few times, and New York audiences are very different, right, yeah,

582
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.839
And the Manhattan audience we did in Manhattan different audience

583
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:23.279
than Brooklyn. We did it in Brooklyn, right, we did

584
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:27.359
it at a queer performance venue, right, and then we

585
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:29.640
did it at a regular like music performance venue, like,

586
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:32.200
very different audiences each time. And that's nice because you

587
00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:34.480
get to see, like, Okay, what are the jokes that

588
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.359
always hit right? What are the what are the things

589
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:38.839
that don't always hit and you're able to kind of

590
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:42.839
cross reference. It's it's it's good. It's good research. In Scotland,

591
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:45.240
we and we thought this might happen. There were certain

592
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:48.519
I mean, I'll just be straight up with it. It's

593
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:51.000
totally fine. Like in New York. This is New York.

594
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.119
Jewish humor is a big part of the culture here. Yeah, right,

595
00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:58.799
Like the show is one of one of the creatives

596
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:03.400
and performers is Jewish, and like that is a big

597
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.200
part of oftentimes a big part of their humor, not

598
00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:09.640
and everything there, right, but like it's it's an integral

599
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:11.759
part of the New York theater experience if you're around

600
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:14.160
the comedy scene for long enough, Right, it's just like

601
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:20.759
culturally such a component of humor here. And those jokes

602
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:25.880
don't hit as well. It's not they just they just

603
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:29.519
they just don't. It's just not it's just a very

604
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:32.880
different you know, it's a very different humor. And it

605
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:35.480
doesn't it didn't like fundamentally change the show. It was

606
00:31:35.559 --> 00:31:38.160
just like night after night, you could be like that

607
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:42.400
gets a really great response in Brooklyn and it gets

608
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:49.440
a much more tepid response in Edinburgh. Yeah, to be fair,

609
00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.319
the audiences at the French festival are very diverse. You

610
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:54.480
get a lot of people coming from New York and

611
00:31:54.519 --> 00:31:57.200
from the US and from all over continental Europe everywhere,

612
00:31:58.039 --> 00:32:03.359
so that helps. But you know, it's yeah, it was

613
00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:06.519
just very it's very interesting, like oh, okay, that's part

614
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:09.480
that's not really like, yeah, it wasn't great over here.

615
00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:11.799
As long as there are enough other parts that hit

616
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:16.920
then you're okay, right, I mean, yeah, yeah. I think

617
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:19.519
it's funny that you would talk about the about Jewish

618
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.839
humor in New York and the like early television, fifties,

619
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:26.240
sixties television had a lot of Jewish humor, and I

620
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:30.880
think that was sort of my first experience with because

621
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:33.119
I grew up in a place that was very diverse

622
00:32:33.160 --> 00:32:35.319
except that there were not a lot of Jews. And

623
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:41.440
so my understanding of the culture came from watching TV

624
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:45.200
and and that you know, those shows were produced, a

625
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:46.759
lot of them in New York, some of them in

626
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:50.960
la and uh and yeah, the elements is there.

627
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:55.200
It's it's you know, we had I had to remind myself.

628
00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:57.920
I remember it's like the second show, the second whole

629
00:32:57.960 --> 00:32:59.720
performance I saw at Fringe after I kind of got

630
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:01.920
over my jet lag, I part way through it is

631
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:04.519
just like, oh not everyone here watches Curby your enthusiasm

632
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:11.319
just like you know, like it's just it's that that

633
00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:16.160
that Larry David style of humor that was so integral

634
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:19.079
and like how I grew up watching Seinfeld and then

635
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:23.839
Larry David's had a chokehold on the TV I've consumed

636
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:24.759
for most.

637
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:25.440
Of my life. Yeah.

638
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:29.839
Right, there have been more years I've been consuming new

639
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.119
episodes or reruns of a Larry David show than years

640
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:36.160
I haven't been. And so yeah, just didn't that's that

641
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:37.960
style just doesn't translate.

642
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:38.759
As much as we're there.

643
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:44.079
Yeah, I would believe that well, because it's it's irrational

644
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:45.640
in a lot.

645
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.920
Of ways, it's contextual.

646
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:49.680
Yeah, okay, yeah, I.

647
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:51.559
Think I think it's I think it's I think it's

648
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:54.799
very contextual, and I think that it gives me a

649
00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:57.720
lot of it. It's just another thing I love about

650
00:33:57.720 --> 00:33:59.920
New York, right, Like that's just I'm not I'm not doing.

651
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:03.880
My name's David, and I have curly hair and and

652
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:05.759
like a lot of people think I'm half Chinese half

653
00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:08.360
Jewish in New York, which I will take, yeah, but

654
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:12.079
take it like I'm sure great, Thank you Like, that's

655
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:14.800
that's like half the city that I'm just fitting in

656
00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:19.239
with right there. Not really, but people a lot of

657
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:21.480
people pre sing that I'm not Jewish, but I actually

658
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:23.960
feel a lot of New York City pride that like ooh,

659
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:28.440
I kind of like I'm aware of that humor. Right,

660
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:30.159
It's not like what I grew up with my family,

661
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:31.960
but like I'm aware of it and it makes it

662
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:34.679
contextual sense to me, and it's just like yes, New

663
00:34:34.760 --> 00:34:39.079
York City, you know, It's just it just makes me

664
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:41.239
makes me well up with even more city pride.

665
00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:43.079
I love the city. That's great.

666
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:46.280
Let's just shift gears for just a second and go

667
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:48.519
toward the spirit world.

668
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:49.920
And I don't mean.

669
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:54.320
I'm not talking about pop up stores at this time

670
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:58.199
of year where you can buy your Halloween.

671
00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:00.480
Costumes, yeah, or or like.

672
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:02.880
Is there any of those things? Yeah.

673
00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:07.360
I actually recently realized or read that that Harry Houdini

674
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:10.760
was like a big seance debunker, Like he literally had

675
00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:13.679
somebody working for him would go out and like pretend

676
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:16.719
to be someone who needed to talk to their husband

677
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:19.280
or father or brother whatever who'd passed on, and and

678
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:26.159
would like you know, challenge the medium to display their talents,

679
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:28.760
and of course none of them ever panned as as

680
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:29.719
being real.

681
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:36.079
There's a cool history of illusionists and magicians who are

682
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:39.480
who deep like to debunk the occult, like Ricky j

683
00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:42.559
is a more recent version of him, who I believe

684
00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:46.400
recently passed somewhat recently passed away. So like, these are

685
00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:49.760
some of the most prominent magicians and illusionists. But they

686
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:54.400
love proving that, like magic isn't real. Yeah right, They're

687
00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:56.760
like they're kind of like they're people of science in

688
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:59.400
a sense, like they'll trick you, but they're like, no,

689
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:01.760
this is not like magic, the occult isn't real.

690
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:05.840
Like you know, there's Yeah, we're all just having a

691
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:08.639
good time here. We're also having good times. As Ed

692
00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:11.159
Cone used to say when he would judge it at

693
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:22.519
untested multiplay meats, we're just having a good time here.

694
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:23.599
We're having a good time.

695
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:26.800
Uh you.

696
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:31.039
So you write for.

697
00:36:29.320 --> 00:36:32.519
For vine Pair? Still, yes, I write for all sorts

698
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:33.760
of food wine.

699
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:38.559
I've seen food and wine Forbes, Drink Hacker, vine Pair.

700
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:41.800
Might I might be writing for a couple more places

701
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:47.320
later this year. But I also judge competitions, so I

702
00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:51.760
judge like like the world Whiskey's Awards I'm a judge

703
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:57.679
for and I'm I just signed I just signed on

704
00:36:57.760 --> 00:36:58.920
to judge that again this year.

705
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:00.239
So I am.

706
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:03.159
I work in spirits. I'm a mostly a spirits writer

707
00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:07.039
and reviewer, sometimes a judge. Some people might say critic,

708
00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:11.559
and I occasionally speak at like industry of it. I

709
00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:14.000
speak at like panels, or I do like private tastings

710
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:16.480
for people or for organizations. I do a lot of

711
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:20.639
work with like nonprofits, so I do like tastings for

712
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:23.280
nonprofits and oftentimes those will like raise money and things

713
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:23.559
like that.

714
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:24.440
Yeah, that makes sense.

715
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:29.119
I wish that you had a super fan who would

716
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:33.159
make a giant, ever updating index of everything that you've

717
00:37:33.159 --> 00:37:38.480
ever said about any particular spirit, because you talk about

718
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:41.199
things on Instagram sometimes that are not actually part of reviews.

719
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:46.880
You're just you're you're discussing a particular brand or expression

720
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:50.400
or whatever. And sometimes I think I'm standing in an

721
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:53.119
aisle and I'm thinking what would David say about this?

722
00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:55.559
It's like I could text him, but that seems really

723
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:58.039
annoying because I would be doing it, you know often,

724
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.039
But like I just sometimes wish I knew what you

725
00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:04.280
thought about everything you've ever weighed in.

726
00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:09.679
On I guess it's I also wish I could remember

727
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:12.679
everything I Sometimes sometimes I'll be like, wait a minute,

728
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:14.400
I wrote a review on that. No, I have a

729
00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:18.320
pretty good memory for it. I wish I could apply

730
00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:20.119
because I love it. I like I it was a

731
00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:24.079
hobby that turned into another career. Yeah, if I could

732
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:27.079
apply that same Like my brain is very good at

733
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:30.840
at keeping spirits knowledge in my head and like, ooh,

734
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:32.840
I tasted this years ago, but I can still remember it.

735
00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:35.679
If I could apply that same amount of brain power

736
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:40.000
to anything else in life, it would be it would

737
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:43.480
be great. But I cannot.

738
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:45.719
You can I feel that. I feel that, you know.

739
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:50.519
Just as an aside, but back to memory. I went

740
00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:55.079
to an informal high school reunion over the weekend and

741
00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:58.639
was talking to somebody that I haven't talked to probably

742
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:02.920
since graduation. So Deck aids right, somebody that went K

743
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:06.840
through twelve with, And he was talking about having a friend,

744
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:09.239
much younger friend who was a powerlifter and who had

745
00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:11.519
just like moved and just like moved to Cleveland or something.

746
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:12.760
And it's like cool. He's like, he tells me the

747
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.320
guy's name and I don't know it, like you know,

748
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:15.960
I might.

749
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:19.400
I don't know all the powerlifters and in the world

750
00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:21.519
they especially if they haven't competed a level that I'm

751
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:26.960
paying attention to, and even then these days, honestly, and so,

752
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:29.000
you know, he told me the guy's name. I looked

753
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:31.679
on Instagram. I didn't see anything that really you know,

754
00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:35.800
rung a bell at that point. And the next night

755
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:42.559
my former classmate messaged me and said I talked to

756
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:43.519
him and he.

757
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:44.360
Knows who you are.

758
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:47.800
He was aware of your your old podcast or whatever.

759
00:39:48.119 --> 00:39:50.639
And then he sends me this picture this guy has

760
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:54.559
sent him that was take it with us at the

761
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:58.000
twenty fifteen Arnold Like, okay, well, I'm not going to

762
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:01.719
remember that. We no, no, how many pictures we took

763
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:03.599
with people, I'm not going to remember that.

764
00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:11.280
Also, twenty fifteen in strength sports was a very special time.

765
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:12.760
Yeah, it was a heady time.

766
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:15.000
It was a hit. This is the best way of saying,

767
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:15.679
I'm gonna steal that.

768
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:16.639
It was a hill free.

769
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:19.800
That was the year that inspired us to start barband.

770
00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:23.320
So we started barband in early twenty sixteen and twenty fifteen.

771
00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:25.639
There was just so much going on and it was

772
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:29.480
all so exciting. Yeah, and kind of like but undefined

773
00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:32.719
still that we were like, we gotta we gotta start

774
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:34.800
a website for this, we got to bid, we gotta

775
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:39.760
build ESPN for this community. Yeah, and yeah, twenty fifteen

776
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:40.880
was special.

777
00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:44.519
And now I was ten years ago. Dude, ten years.

778
00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:47.920
No, No, so it was so it was like it

779
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:48.880
was like six and a half.

780
00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:51.239
So it's ten years ago. Yeah.

781
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:53.880
Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, you know, the year

782
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:56.639
two thousand was five years ago, was not the case

783
00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:57.039
at all.

784
00:40:57.559 --> 00:40:59.920
Well, nineteen eighty was twenty years So that's what you were.

785
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:01.719
That's what you really need to remember.

786
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:08.880
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, I appreciate you know,

787
00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:11.599
reading what you what you're doing. It's probably a lot

788
00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:14.400
of liquor I'm never gonna taste. Some of it is

789
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:16.199
like out of my price range, and some of it

790
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:19.920
is just out out of my out of my interest vertical,

791
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.039
you know, or whatever. However, the thing that always blows

792
00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:28.880
me away when I read reviews is tasting notes and

793
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:36.320
identifying those particular flavors and smells of things that are

794
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:39.000
not necessarily related to liquor at all that end.

795
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:39.559
Up in reviews.

796
00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:42.400
And like I you know, sometimes I can get this

797
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:44.840
or that or whatever. If I've like read it ahead of.

798
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:48.159
Time, or I could you have something smoky, I can

799
00:41:48.199 --> 00:41:48.480
get it.

800
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:51.760
If it's if it's you know, if it's tastes like medicine,

801
00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:54.360
I can get that. If you know, if it's sweet,

802
00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:56.719
if it has a little bit of a fruitiness to it.

803
00:41:57.039 --> 00:41:59.679
But I couldn't tell you what fruit I would put

804
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:02.119
it on the list. It's like something really strong, like

805
00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:04.760
an apricod or a peach or an orange or whatever.

806
00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:09.519
So I tend to think, and I know this is true,

807
00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:12.840
like in the in the in the world of sense

808
00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:18.800
that people, some people have a very very refined.

809
00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:20.760
Nose for for.

810
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:25.280
Cologne and you know, developing colone and perfume and whatever whatever.

811
00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:29.000
How did you develop that for spirits?

812
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:33.159
A lot of practice, Yeah, and a lot of like writing.

813
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:37.280
Like before I ever wrote reviews for an outlet and

814
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:40.320
got paid for it, I was writing reviews for myself

815
00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:42.239
because I was kind of curree. I wanted to train that. Like,

816
00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:45.239
I don't think I smell or taste necessarily a lot

817
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:47.880
better than the average person. I think that that can

818
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:51.440
come with practice. I think being able to translate that

819
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:55.960
to specific things that are relatable to people, because taste

820
00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:58.960
is subjective, right, Like I might like something that you don't, Yeah, right,

821
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:01.519
Like like I don't like cucumbers.

822
00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:03.639
Really right, I don't love cucumbers, but I don't hate

823
00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:06.239
them at all. I'm pretty you know, agnostic.

824
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:10.400
A lot of people love cucumbers great. But you know,

825
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:12.440
so it's kind of like, how do I How am

826
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:16.840
I translating things to things that people will like understand

827
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:20.159
where maybe they can get a sense of what I'm experiencing.

828
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:22.599
And it's really just less about like, oh am I

829
00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:26.039
getting this right? And more about am I writing down

830
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:28.480
things in such a way that it's getting across what

831
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:34.760
I'm experiencing, And like there are correct and incorrect things,

832
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:36.760
right Like bourbon, you're going to taste a lot of vanilla.

833
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:38.400
That's just the science mind it, because they have these

834
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:40.719
certain compounds that get into the liquid, like you know

835
00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:44.880
what I mean, And like you know, for a sherry

836
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:48.360
cask aged scotch, you're going to get certain flavors that

837
00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:50.800
they are, right, they are flavors you're you're probably gonna get.

838
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:54.840
But I like to think of it more as am

839
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:59.800
I accurately conveying what I'm experiencing such that someone might

840
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:04.719
be able to put themselves in my shoes when reading

841
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:08.760
the article, and they might get something very different, or

842
00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:10.599
they might get things significantly different if they were to

843
00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:12.679
go taste the spirit themselves. And hopefully they will and

844
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:15.360
they can compare right, and sometimes those things will sink up.

845
00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:18.599
Sometimes they won't. But I'm trying to really do I

846
00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:21.119
think all that I can all that I can honestly do,

847
00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:23.880
which is give an accurate representation of what I experience.

848
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:27.079
And it's just practice. It's like anything else. It's like,

849
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:35.440
you know, I don't write music, but like if you

850
00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:37.239
were to ask me, how do I do that? Or

851
00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:40.440
like I wouldn't know where to start. It seems so intimidating,

852
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:43.719
But you learn and you practice and repetition, etc.

853
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:44.119
Etc.

854
00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:45.920
To where I can I can kind of switch it

855
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:48.039
on and I'm like, cool, I'm now writing tasting notes,

856
00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:49.119
like I'm in that mode.

857
00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:56.920
That makes sense to me. It just it is so

858
00:44:57.079 --> 00:45:00.400
OPI to me, I guess this is the best way

859
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:00.840
to say it.

860
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:05.239
But I mean I I get it. I mean I

861
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:07.639
get where you're coming from when I when I read

862
00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:11.960
those reviews. But I would have to do a lot

863
00:45:11.960 --> 00:45:14.360
of work to be able to to pull those notes

864
00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:15.760
out of it myself, for sure.

865
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:18.440
It is the thing is I will say, it is

866
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:21.239
a lot of work, Like I will spend certain reviews,

867
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:28.320
I will spend hours on like not our hours hours. Yeah,

868
00:45:28.360 --> 00:45:31.000
so it's not just like taste a whiskey, that's what

869
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:36.000
I taste like. Sometimes you're like you're spending time with it,

870
00:45:36.039 --> 00:45:38.679
and it can it can it can often feel a

871
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:45.159
little bit grueling. Actually, and again I don't I joke,

872
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:47.440
and it's true. I don't get paid to drink whiskey.

873
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:53.760
I get paid to write a thousand words. Yeah, after

874
00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:56.760
I drink the whiskey, right, Like, I'm not getting paid

875
00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:58.599
drink the whiskey. I'm paying to do stuff after I

876
00:45:58.679 --> 00:45:59.280
drink the whiskey.

877
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:00.000
Right. Yeah.

878
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:02.719
That's that's the thing that has that carries value to

879
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:04.079
to whoever's paying you.

880
00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:07.880
Is yes, yeah, that makes sense. Have you ever had.

881
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:12.360
Any kind of uh like backlash or negative feedback from

882
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:13.880
reviews that you're given that we're not.

883
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.159
As positive as people were expecting.

884
00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:21.199
Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. I don't want to name.

885
00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:23.239
No, I wouldn't. I would never ask that.

886
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:29.079
One thing I will say is that I think the

887
00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:32.960
spirits industry, and I speak for spirits. I speak for like,

888
00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:40.840
for whiskey, agave spirits, rum, vodka, gin brandies. I speak

889
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:44.119
for spirits, not wine. I don't do much work in wine.

890
00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:45.599
I've done a little bit, I don't do a lot.

891
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:48.000
It's a very different world. So I'm not saying it's

892
00:46:48.039 --> 00:46:50.599
good or bad. I just can't speak as accurately to

893
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:57.239
that in spirits, whether you're on the whether you're making spirits,

894
00:46:57.280 --> 00:46:58.760
or whether you're on the corporate side, or whether you're

895
00:46:58.760 --> 00:47:02.079
on the media side. There's a pretty good understanding that

896
00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:05.480
every distillery, like let's take a Let's take a bourbon

897
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.760
distillery for example. Let's take a distillary that makes bourbon.

898
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.239
That distillery will make really good bourbon. It will also

899
00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:16.760
make some okay bourbon, and it will also make some

900
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:20.559
bad bourbon. Now, those ratios might differ from one place

901
00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:25.639
to the next, but there is not a distiller, there's

902
00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:28.159
not an experience distiller in the world who will tell

903
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:31.480
you that everything they make is the exact same quality level.

904
00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:35.039
Because there is so much variation when it comes to

905
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:42.679
things like the cask type, aging environment, like the temperature,

906
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:46.440
the ambient temperature outside during fermentation, that if impact, Like

907
00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:50.559
all these are thousand different factors, right that could impact

908
00:47:50.559 --> 00:47:54.920
the ultimate flavor of spirit And so you know, ultimately

909
00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:57.719
you are curating every particular release. But like, if you

910
00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:00.159
go to a warehouse that has twenty thousand barrels, I

911
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:02.599
guarantee you it'll be some you like, and I guarantee

912
00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:04.880
you there'll be some you don't like. And that is

913
00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:09.000
there's a lot of space in between. Yeah, And because

914
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:13.880
of that, I think there's a general kindness and understanding

915
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:16.599
in the spirit space that not everything is for everyone

916
00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:19.599
and not everything is the best product in the world.

917
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:24.719
Yeah, I could see how that would be the case. Well,

918
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:28.400
I mean there's so many different so many different industries

919
00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:32.800
where you produce a product at multiple price points too,

920
00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:37.719
you know that makes sense. Actually sort of makes me

921
00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:40.079
think about something that was laughing at.

922
00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:41.280
It made me laugh the other day.

923
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:45.679
I was thinking about all the TV movies and TV

924
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:48.559
shows and movies that I've seen over the years where

925
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:50.679
somebody goes into a bar and orders a drink, and

926
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:52.239
the way they order the drink and they say, give

927
00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:53.880
me a Scotch, give me a bourbon. It's like, how

928
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:55.199
the fuck do they know what they're getting?

929
00:48:56.679 --> 00:49:01.480
Just listen. There's a time in place sometimes you're just like,

930
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:06.000
give me a It's oftentimes if you notice people are like,

931
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:08.320
it's they're often coming up from like a very frustrating

932
00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:10.199
scene and they sit down there like, give me a scotch,

933
00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:15.920
you know what I mean? Yeah, but that would Yeah,

934
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:17.440
that's like my nightmare because then I'd be like, well,

935
00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:19.559
what did you give me? Why did you give me that? Like,

936
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:20.840
what did you what?

937
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.320
I was like, Yeah, what was your read on me

938
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:27.000
that made you decide that was the thing to give me?

939
00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:30.480
Yeah, that's funny, that's funny.

940
00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:35.400
Can we take a few minutes and talk about what

941
00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:39.280
might be a way in for somebody who's interested in

942
00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:47.559
tasting developing a taste for whiskey bourbon?

943
00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:53.719
For sure? I think the best thing is to taste

944
00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:57.320
with people, is to taste with other people. I think

945
00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:59.679
that it is not it's easier said than done. Right,

946
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:02.559
live in areas where there's not a big whiskey community, right, like,

947
00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:06.440
for example, even in the US. Take this as an example.

948
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:09.119
I know people who are really into scotch and they

949
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:13.760
live in an area where the predominant whiskey community is bourbon. Right,

950
00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:15.599
Nothing wrong with that? It just is what it is.

951
00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:17.440
And I know people vice versa. I know a lot

952
00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:19.400
of people who are like, oh, you know, I really

953
00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:25.559
love scott or I love bourbon, but like most of

954
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:30.840
the people around me are Scots shrinkers, right, And I

955
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:32.920
think the best thing one can do is find a

956
00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:38.559
community of people who also enjoy whiskey or the spirit

957
00:50:38.599 --> 00:50:40.239
that you enjoy or you want to learn more about.

958
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:43.360
And if that community isn't already established, build it yourself,

959
00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:44.920
Like find a friend who wants to go on that

960
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:49.239
journey with you. And tasting things with people and talking

961
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:52.360
about what you're tasting is I think the most fun part.

962
00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:54.920
It's something I do regularly. Like I am a quote

963
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:57.960
unquote professional, but I still regularly have people over to

964
00:50:58.000 --> 00:50:59.320
my home or go over to buddies homes and we

965
00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:01.360
all bring bottles do like we call them bottle shares,

966
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:04.239
and we're like tasting the same stuff and we're just

967
00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:05.679
talking about it, like what are you tasting on this?

968
00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:06.159
Oh?

969
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:08.880
What do you compare this to? Like, you know, this

970
00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:11.719
is a product that's you know from this is a

971
00:51:11.800 --> 00:51:13.880
gym Beam product, how does this product compare to their

972
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:17.119
other products? And honestly, just having conversations around what you're

973
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:20.119
tasting is the best way to learn because if you're

974
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:22.840
in conversation with someone else, you're going to come to

975
00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:25.440
some interesting conclusions and you're gonna find you're gonna you're

976
00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:28.079
gonna learn something about the spirit.

977
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:32.280
That makes sense, that makes sense to me. Yeah, And

978
00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:35.840
like if particularly if you, I guess, if you know

979
00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:42.719
generally what you like, and I think that there's I

980
00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:44.920
think there's maybe been an Internet ban on the on

981
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:48.679
the phrase flavor profile, or at least there should be, But.

982
00:51:50.119 --> 00:51:54.280
I I don't hate flavor actually like that that's the term. Yeah,

983
00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:55.800
I'm okay with that, You're okay with it, But that's

984
00:51:55.800 --> 00:51:56.480
just me. That's just me.

985
00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:58.800
But if you know that you that that you like,

986
00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:00.840
you're like you're a little sweeter, You're like, you're a

987
00:52:00.880 --> 00:52:05.199
little smokier, you like liquor a little a little darker,

988
00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:09.360
a little lighter, a little fruitier or whatever I suppose

989
00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:11.400
there pass in. But how do you I guess you

990
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:15.840
would never know if you if there are things that

991
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:21.239
you had not experienced before that don't fit those profiles

992
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:24.960
unless you and that you happen to end up liking,

993
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:26.719
unless you just try them, Unless you can.

994
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:30.719
You can, I think too. The thing reason I like

995
00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:34.760
drinking with people is it oftentimes helps bust your own stereotypes.

996
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:40.679
For example, like the number of bourbon drinkers that find

997
00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:43.360
out they love peeded scotch, and not all scotch is

998
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:45.320
peeded by the way, right people think sometimes they think

999
00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:48.639
in America, we think scotch equals smoking. No, that's not. Like.

1000
00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:51.679
We can taste some things that are delightfully light and

1001
00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:55.119
fruity and taste like, you know, the best bite of

1002
00:52:55.159 --> 00:52:58.280
papaya you've ever had, right, and like that's in the

1003
00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:02.920
world of scotch. But the number of bourbon drinkers feel like,

1004
00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:04.719
I don't like smoky stuff, and then they drink with

1005
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:07.320
people and it's like, Okay, well you didn't like that.

1006
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:09.760
What did you have that with smoky that you didn't like? Okay,

1007
00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:11.400
what's the context you had it in? Did you have

1008
00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:13.800
it right after you had a bourbon because that might

1009
00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:18.599
be like extra jarring, right, But maybe like this, maybe

1010
00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:20.239
this is this is actually a pede in scotch, but

1011
00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:23.400
it's in a very different flavor category or flavor profile.

1012
00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:27.039
So I think that Listen, sometimes you're just not gonna

1013
00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:29.960
like stuff right, Like, I have a buddy who has

1014
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:33.519
a great palette. He's a he's a big bourbon drinker,

1015
00:53:33.559 --> 00:53:37.519
and he doesn't like rye whiskey, so he prefers bourbons

1016
00:53:37.599 --> 00:53:39.960
with a low with he prefers whiskey with low rye

1017
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:40.639
content or.

1018
00:53:40.599 --> 00:53:42.360
No rye interest, right.

1019
00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:45.440
And most bourbon in the US has some rye in it.

1020
00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:48.000
It's it's it's a flavoringingrain. It adds a little bit

1021
00:53:48.039 --> 00:53:50.719
of it adds a little bit of something something to

1022
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:52.960
a lot of bourbon. There's also bourbon with no rye,

1023
00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:56.679
but as the rye content increases, he tends he tends

1024
00:53:56.719 --> 00:54:00.480
to like the spirit less. And this is a tried

1025
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:03.400
everything under the sun, and that's just what he likes

1026
00:54:03.400 --> 00:54:04.000
and doesn't like.

1027
00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:04.719
Right.

1028
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:10.519
But I think flavors often contextual, not always, but often contextual,

1029
00:54:11.440 --> 00:54:14.039
And what you like in a certain setting might be

1030
00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:16.239
different than what you like in a different setting. And

1031
00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:17.599
I think that's why it's so fun to be in

1032
00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:22.159
conversation with these things and be in conversation with people

1033
00:54:22.199 --> 00:54:22.639
about them.

1034
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:24.280
Yeah, that makes sense.

1035
00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:29.119
Do do you find that people have different people have

1036
00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:31.760
a fallow in a different points in the spectrum of

1037
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:34.280
being able to like if they're tasting, being able to

1038
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:37.280
sort of put the last thing aside and clear their

1039
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:39.960
palate enough to move on to the next thing.

1040
00:54:41.599 --> 00:54:43.360
No one's as good at that as they want, as

1041
00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:45.760
they they like, as they want to be, not as

1042
00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:47.559
they think they're but as they want to be. It's tough,

1043
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:49.360
and your your palette fatigues is a real thing.

1044
00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:53.159
Yeah, it is. Yeah, I just.

1045
00:54:54.679 --> 00:54:57.679
Sometimes it's sometimes it's easy, like and I'm and I've

1046
00:54:57.679 --> 00:55:00.519
I think I've tasted more beers in beer flights then

1047
00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:06.079
I have have whiskeys, and I think you're maybe not

1048
00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:07.760
as conscious of.

1049
00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:11.280
Trying to clear your palate in between. There's like, oh,

1050
00:55:11.360 --> 00:55:13.199
it's take a little this, a little bit of that, whatever.

1051
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:15.800
And it's often that kind of the second time around

1052
00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:18.239
when you come back to it, that you have a

1053
00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:20.239
different feeling about it and you might actually like.

1054
00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:23.559
It better than the first time. Yeah, And I don't

1055
00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:24.880
know why that is exactly.

1056
00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:28.920
There's just something necessarily something about it that that rises

1057
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.159
and part of it has has been sitting there longer,

1058
00:55:32.199 --> 00:55:35.440
and so it opens up a little bit and it's

1059
00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:36.320
a little friendlier.

1060
00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:40.519
It's also like if we don't know what to expect,

1061
00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:42.760
if what we try. And sometimes if we try something,

1062
00:55:42.760 --> 00:55:45.199
if it's very different than what we're expecting, it can

1063
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:49.079
be an unpleasant experience. Sometimes it can be a pleasant experience.

1064
00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:52.440
But if our expectations are a little more tempered, sometimes

1065
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:55.079
we can enjoy it more. Right, Like if you give

1066
00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:57.719
a bourbon again to use a smoke example, if you

1067
00:55:57.719 --> 00:56:01.039
give a bourbon drink or something try this and they

1068
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:03.679
are a too to bourbon and they try something that's

1069
00:56:03.719 --> 00:56:08.679
a heavily peded scotch, it they might not love it, right,

1070
00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:10.920
But if they know going in it's like, hey, I

1071
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:14.679
actually would love to try you on some impeded scotches

1072
00:56:15.079 --> 00:56:17.159
And if they're open to would you be open to that? Right?

1073
00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:19.400
And it's like okay, they might go in with a

1074
00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:21.880
more open mind and it's not going to be this

1075
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:25.800
like this odd juxtaposition between what they expected and what

1076
00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:27.880
they got. The two things might be more in line

1077
00:56:28.360 --> 00:56:31.639
or more sympatic or more SYMPATICO.

1078
00:56:31.280 --> 00:56:32.719
Yeah, that makes sense.

1079
00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:40.360
What's your feeling on investing in Like I'm not necessarily

1080
00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:44.960
calling out for for for suggestions, this is not a

1081
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:50.079
fantasy football, but what is your feeling about that?

1082
00:56:50.199 --> 00:56:52.119
Is that? Is that something that.

1083
00:56:51.679 --> 00:56:55.920
That is worthwhile and only at certain levels, or is

1084
00:56:55.960 --> 00:56:56.920
it not worthwhile at all?

1085
00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:01.960
Or I think that is. I do not give investment

1086
00:57:02.039 --> 00:57:05.679
advice or really make much commentary on investing in spirits.

1087
00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:12.119
Spirits are consumable, they are perishable. Yeah, the market is unpredictable. Yeah,

1088
00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:14.440
proceed at your own risk.

1089
00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:18.719
Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.

1090
00:57:18.800 --> 00:57:25.199
I mean people everybody's always pursuing the the undervalued asset, right,

1091
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:28.920
I mean, and they want to capitalize on an undervalued

1092
00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:33.079
asset and then eventually flip it to somebody at some point.

1093
00:57:34.599 --> 00:57:36.400
And I think we're seeing a softening right now of

1094
00:57:36.440 --> 00:57:38.320
the risky market. I don't think it's going to stay

1095
00:57:38.360 --> 00:57:40.679
that way forever. I think these thinks ebb and flow right,

1096
00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:44.119
but proceed, proceed with caution, do your research.

1097
00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:46.440
Actually, that's a that's just kind of sort of my

1098
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:48.119
final question in the spirits.

1099
00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:52.719
Area here, what what is your gut on on the

1100
00:57:52.760 --> 00:57:56.800
market in general for spirits in the US.

1101
00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:02.159
My really, my good friend Isaac Winter, who's the master

1102
00:58:02.199 --> 00:58:05.039
blender of High West, said it well, and he said

1103
00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:09.400
he thinks we're in an overhang where production has outstripped demand.

1104
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:13.039
And I think that the spirit's market is I do think.

1105
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:16.119
I'm not I'm not bearish on it, but I think

1106
00:58:16.119 --> 00:58:19.559
that we are going through a market correction such that

1107
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:25.320
maybe COVID was not the best indicator of long term Yeah.

1108
00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:30.079
Yeah, it's like housing, same same story with housing, I think, Yeah, yeah,

1109
00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:33.679
that sort of makes sense. Well, David, I want to

1110
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:37.280
thank you very much. I enjoy every conversation with you,

1111
00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:40.719
but recording them and sharing with other them with others

1112
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:43.960
helps me keep the show going to be.

1113
00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:46.559
I know you did.

1114
00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:49.840
You did Barbin on your own for quite a while,

1115
00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:54.679
and so you understand the whole dynamic of keeping a

1116
00:58:54.679 --> 00:58:56.400
show going largely by yourself.

1117
00:58:56.480 --> 00:59:00.960
But I do understand, and I ampathy and I listen.

1118
00:59:01.159 --> 00:59:04.679
I love that I was a fan of your podcasting

1119
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:07.119
before I was your friend, and it's an honor to

1120
00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:09.119
be on here, and I so appreciate you having me,

1121
00:59:10.039 --> 00:59:12.400
and I hope people enjoy this conversation as much as

1122
00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:13.239
I've enjoyed talking to you.

1123
00:59:13.320 --> 00:59:15.840
Jim awesome. How can people find you, David?

1124
00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:19.239
You can find me on Instagram at David Thomas twe

1125
00:59:19.519 --> 00:59:26.480
You can find me on x at d underscore tow. Yeah.

1126
00:59:26.519 --> 00:59:32.519
Those are great, excellent. I was you ever noticed it?

1127
00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:36.159
Like authors and and and serial killers.

1128
00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:37.639
Three names.

1129
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:42.599
Well, you know, I'm not gonna say which I am.

1130
00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:48.679
But I know it's I totally get it, all right.

1131
00:59:48.719 --> 01:00:05.239
Well, thanks a lot, David,