Navigating Parenthood and Performance | Guest: Jonathan Gregg

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All right, well, welcome. I'm here with Jonathan greg who

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is somebody that I became exposed to on Instagram. Honestly,

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I don't spend a lot of time on TikTok and

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so I don't I don't really encounter anybody there unless

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my daughter in law center me tiktoks all the time.

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That's kind of my my big, uh, my big exposure

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to TikTok. But I actually, I mean, I saw a

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video of you talking about I think it was talking

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about parenting at the time, and I didn't really know

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much about you. Uh, you know, look at looking around

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a little bit like who is this guy and and

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why is he on my screen? And uh, I'm I'm

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kind of a fan of Dylan Michael White, who talks

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a lot about about parenting as well as well as

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a lot of other things. And so I'm like, okay,

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well I'll follow this guy. And to my shock, you

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followed me back at some point. And I don't even

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know how that happened or why. I never know exactly

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why people follow me back because my Instagram is not

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that interesting most of the time. But anyway, so welcome

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you are You're in Brooklyn.

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Yeah, Queens. How dare you Queens? No, I mean to

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the rest of the world, that's basically the same place,

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and we share a border, and it's we're both just

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outside of Manhattan. But to a bourbonite, it's definitely Queens

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and not Brooklyn. I'm actually like eighteen feet from Brooklyn.

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But we get very we get very particular about our boroughs.

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But the greater New York area. Yeah, of the of

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the five boroughs, I.

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My family and I spent about almost a month in

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New York City last summer, not this past summer, but

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the summer before, which was a really interesting experience. Like

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you don't really you don't really understand any of the

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dynamics of New York unless she's like, stay more than

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four or five days.

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You know. True, Yeah, it's there's there's a difference between

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It's kind of like the Olympic sports. I mean, it

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really is the difference in a sprint in a marathon.

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If you come for a weekend, you have to gear

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up for it for sure. I mean I tell my

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friends and family, you got to limber up and exercise

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before you come to New York because it's exhausting and

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there's so much walking. But then if you stick around

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for even yeah, even a couple of weeks or more,

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it's a it's a different it's a different game. At

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that point. You really got to learn to strategize the

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city and how the whole thing works, and not just

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the couple of spots you want to hit. You got

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to learn how to how to really survive the long run.

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Yeah, we we were staying near the park like Hell's Kitchen,

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which I expected to be you know, like Daredevil, which

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is not that's not the place anymore, but that we

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were there for the first week and then we moved

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to Harlem for ten days. My my family from my

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son and his family from Canada came down and stayed

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with this and like so we have you know really

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at the time nine and seven. Yeah, oh your old grandsons.

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And that was a that was definitely an experience too.

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It was very i mean, it was an airbnb, very gentrified,

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but but Harlem is still Harlem, right, Yeah, And we

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were not like we're not like blocks from the park

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or anything. We were we were quite a way into Harlem,

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which was a real I mean, it was a good

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cultural experience kind of for everybody.

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Yeah, that Harlem is funny. It's like really, I mean,

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all of New York. It's it's the the like the

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gentrification meeting the culture meeting the you know some there

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are definitely parts of New York. You look at Hell's

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Kitchen impact over the years, and you know, like in

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the past thirty years getting cleaned up is useful. There's

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some things that could be made better, for sure. And

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then also there's you know, then then there's there's undeniably

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rich people getting richer by buying up property and raising

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the rent, and yeah, you know, all of that is true.

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So it's kind of I don't know, that's one of

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the things I enjoy about it is all of those

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things stayed true in New York. There are some gritty,

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grammy places, there's a lot of deep culture and heart,

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and then there's some money to be made. You know,

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like the rich can keep getting richer in some spots.

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And see, you got to fight back like against that

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as much as you can and try to keep the

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heart of New York and try not to get run

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over by anyone, and try not to run over anyone.

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And it's just kind of a lot going on all

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the time.

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Yeah, But you're not originally from New York.

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No, No, I've been here twenty twenty years, now, twenty

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years this I just passed my twenty years. But I

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grew up in North Alabama and so pretty much the

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same kind of.

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Very SIMI yeah, yeah, yeah, just a little accents are

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a little different. Actually, that's kind of that's kind of

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a point. I have a sort of pet theory about

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that because I grew up My parents were born in Oklahoma,

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and they but I was born in California, and they

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never entirely lost their accents. And strangely enough, my sister,

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who is considerably younger, she's like almost eight years younger

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than me, she picked it up. I do not have it,

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never had it, and like I sort of had an

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intention to not have it. But but so, you know,

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the other person that I follow from from Alabama on

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Instagram is Adam Berry, and he's the thickest, thickest accent.

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Did you ever have it? Did you? Did you?

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That's a great question. I think that. So one of

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the things that the main thing that brought me to

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New York twenty years ago was performance, was the dream

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of being an actor, and I think that growing up

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as a kid, Like, you know, I was doing community

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theater from a very young age, and you just can't

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no matter where you are, you can't really do Charles

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Dickens with a Southern accent. So it kind of just

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like worked its way out when I was a kid

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just by doing theater. And then it kind of like

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I think that I have from the acting side and

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just I don't know, there's a kind of an innate

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adaptability I realized about myself when it comes to things

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like vocal you know, it's and psychologically you get into

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let down the road you learn like, oh maybe I'm

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mirroring to make people feel more comfortable or whatever. It's

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it kind of it wasn't on purpose at the time,

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but like the accent, it was one of the things

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that I could that just naturally adjusted to where I was.

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So when I'm home even now still it comes out

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a little bit more. But I really like, kind of

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there used to be a thing, this is a true

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thing that would happen in New York on Saint Patrick's Day,

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Like I would be out and I would not be

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trying to do anything. I would not be trying to

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put on an affectation or anything. But eventually some Irishman

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would start asking me what county I was from, and

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I'd be like, oh, Madison, and he's like what he means,

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like from Ireland. They thought I was a natural born

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Irishman and I'm like, oh, no, I guess I just

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am talking like you now because we're drinking and I'm

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in a bar with everyone, Like, I don't know. It

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was like a kind of a natural thing that happened.

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So I've been asked a lot about my accent and

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what happened to it, and I think that it's just it.

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I carry mostly, I think a pretty neutral accent, and

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I know everyone kind of says that. Everyone kind of

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says like I don't have an accent, and that's just

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hardly true for most people that you know. But like

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when you hear my dad sounds a lot like Adam

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Barry is. My dad is a Southerner, and my mom

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has a pretty Southern accent to my brother is in

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Kansas City. He has a pretty solid accent that you

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can hear, and I when I'm with them, it comes

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back out. And when I'm in New York, you know,

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my my wife is in Connecticut, kind of a neutral

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if anything Northeastern accent there maybe comes out a little bit.

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It's just I just kind of like match the match

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the tone, and I instinctively kind of match the tone

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and the accent of whatever whatever I'm doing at the time.

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I have this theory that it's genetic that some people

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just some people develop accents and other people can do

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any accent, but their their their speech is relatively neutral, flat,

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you know, newscaster kind of voice.

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Yeah, what is it the the mid Atlantic? Is that

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that's the made up accent, not actually a region, but

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that's what they call it.

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Yeah, right in the middle of the water. Sounds like

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like you're from from nowhere, but you've recently gone through

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a Shakespeare intensive. So so you said you started acting

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like very early, Like how early?

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Well, I was doing stuff like I remember when I

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was in preschool, I did a church production of the

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Best Christmas Pageant Ever and kind of stuff like that,

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like a church but that was like a little taste

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of being in front of an audience, you know, even

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little things like the church choir and we do like

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the Little Summer Children's Musical. And then when I was well,

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let's see, I think my big break when I was

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in kindergarten. I was Owl in our kindergarten production of

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Windy the Pooh, and so that that, yeah, it was.

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It was a blast.

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I met with that ere your would be like such

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a downer at that.

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I don't remember who. I want to say, my friend

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lazy ask you?

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Was you?

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Or I won't be making that up, but I think

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it was lazy to ask you. And I actually think

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she was really funny because it was such a downer.

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It was like a funny way to go about doing it,

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you know. And I don't know if she was trying

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to be that funny or if it was just I

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don't know, but it was I remember being very funny.

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That was kind of my introduction to what it meant

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to be like on stage with a script and a

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director and a you know, blocking. And it was, of

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course kindergarten, so it's barely any of those things, but

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it was a little taste to a five year old brain.

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It was a little taste of all those things. And

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then when I was in the summer before third grade,

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my mom took us to see a community theater production

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of Oliver and I loved it. I loved it. And

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then I realized that, like or she explained to me

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that all of those kids were from town. They were

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from they were they were just from here, and they

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just auditioned. That this was a very accessible thing to

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get involved with. And so I said, oh, can I

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want to do this? Can I audition first and one

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of the kind of do this thing? And she said sure.

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So that that winter, that December and whatever November, I guess,

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I auditioned for a Christmas Carol, which was an annual

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thing in our community theater at a hometown and I

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booked it. I booked the smallest role in the show.

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I was like the little rich boy. There was one

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rich boy. There was like a urchins that ran around

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throughout the whole show, just being little poor kids, and

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I was not one of them. I was there, the

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one single rich boy who had half as many scenes

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as the urchins, did very little, but got to experience

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what that was like to be a part of a

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full production. And at that point I was I was hooked.

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And so from that point on I did I mean,

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I don't know how many years in a row, four

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or five years of Christmas Carol in a row, and

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then again in high school later and then during the

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like in between that I was auditioning for. It kind

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of became my Like I played some sports. I played

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baseball and soccer as I could. I was, yeah, athletic

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enough to see, you know, to be a boy. But

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really my thing became doing the community theater shows, either

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the musicals or the children's plays or anything I could

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get my hands on, and so I was always doing

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community productions. I just found like the whole process was

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so cool. As a kid, it was so magical to

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like just go hang out with a bunch of adults

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in like a kind of grimy community space and like

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put together this thing and like it. You know, it

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like smells dusty, and we're here super late, but we're

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making a thing that eventually people are going to come see.

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And it was kind of had a really romantic view

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on it. And so really since then, it's just kind

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of it just stuck. Even I always thought like, this

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is a great thing to do. It's a great past time,

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it's a great passion. I'll figure out what I want

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to do with my life later. I'll do something responsible

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and real when it comes time to get a job.

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Then I went to a high school that was a

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magnet school that focused on performance. And then I went

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to college and ended up getting a degree in musical theater,

245
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and so I really just gave myself no other outs.

246
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I got.

247
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All I could do at that point was moved to

248
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New York and try to make it so then you know,

249
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now I've been here for twenty years and I still

250
00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:40.799
don't have a Broadway credit, but I have some followers

251
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on Instagram and TikTok, and I get to make videos

252
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and that's its own fun thing. I get to be

253
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on podcasts, so I love it.

254
00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:50.600
Yeah, yeah, there you go. Yeah, I know. I I

255
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did some theater in high school. Actually it was sort

256
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of like maybe I think maybe twelve shows between the

257
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two schools that I went to nice, which is kind

258
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of a lot in high school, and it it sort

259
00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:05.759
of deluded my academic focus, say, late night rehearsal stuff,

260
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you know, and whatever, it's homework.

261
00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:10.879
I understand why. I understand why we tell kids it

262
00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:13.519
looks school is important. Learning is important, learning how to

263
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learn is important, but also like learning to be a

264
00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:18.639
person is just as important. Finding a thing that you

265
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like and learning how to like. Don't fail out of

266
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high school. High school diploma matters, being able to learn,

267
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being able to finish high school matters, But like, I

268
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don't know, I was kind of the same way. I mean,

269
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my grades didn't drop too but I was kind of

270
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a nerd so they were okay, but they definitely took

271
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a hit once I got to high school. That was

272
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like all performance all the time. My school did it.

273
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I was doing community stuff, I was trying to do

274
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professional stuff. It was like, you know, and I don't know.

275
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At the end of the day, I'm in my mid

276
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forties now, and I think that understanding people and understanding

277
00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:50.720
how to navigate situations is as important as you know, biology.

278
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Although I will say I do think that learning how

279
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to learn and respecting knowledge is an important thing. We're

280
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in a weird time of I don't ever want to

281
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sound like learning is an important because I feel like

282
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we're in a weird time of anti anti knowledge, anti intellect. Yeah.

283
00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:06.039
Yeah, I think that that's definitely true, And so.

284
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Be on record saying no, learning is important. School is important.

285
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:11.559
It's kind of it's kind of a scary. It's kind

286
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of a scary time in that way because where it's

287
00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:16.679
kind of in a time when the facts don't seem

288
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to matter or or the facts are always questioned, and yeah,

289
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like if you you know, like where's the bottom line,

290
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where's where's where's the rock solid that you can depend

291
00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:27.120
on an environment where.

292
00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:30.639
It's very unmooring. It's very tricky, it's very I don't know,

293
00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:33.759
it's it's I think that sometime down the road, who knows,

294
00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:35.440
who knows, but sometimes other knowa to think people are

295
00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:37.240
going to look at this time and be like, there

296
00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.000
is there was psychological trauma happening that no one was

297
00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:43.720
even able to clock that much because there's no constant

298
00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:45.519
truth right now. I mean it feels like there is.

299
00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:47.000
It feels like there should be, but we are not

300
00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:49.399
agreeing on it and that feels crazy.

301
00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:53.440
Yeah, no, it's it's yeah. Unmooring is a really good

302
00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:59.000
way of stating that. Did you ever find that you

303
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:06.159
were like othered by people because your your interest was theater?

304
00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.759
Yeah, one hundred percent, Yes, big time. I uh And

305
00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:13.879
you know, to whatever degree that was other people are

306
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.519
doing that and and whatever degree that was me feeling

307
00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:19.879
that way, But yes, absolutely I felt most at home

308
00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:22.919
in those theater settings, in those rehearsal spaces and on

309
00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.360
stage and I also grew up in the South in

310
00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:28.279
the eighties and nineties, and I wanted to be a

311
00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:30.559
boy in the South in the eighties and nineties. I,

312
00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:32.519
like I said, I played sports. I wasn't great, but

313
00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:35.279
I was fine. Like I was a not a consistent

314
00:14:35.320 --> 00:14:37.519
all star in the rec leagues, but I was not

315
00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:41.240
I was not embarrassingly bad, but I wanted to do

316
00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:44.919
that stuff. And there was there like there was a

317
00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:49.399
time I I mentioned this on uh my podcast recently,

318
00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:51.120
so I hated to repeat myself. So if you've heard

319
00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:54.080
this before, jan But I was forget what year I

320
00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.080
was fourth or fifth grade, and I was maybe even

321
00:14:57.080 --> 00:14:59.399
old than that, I don't remember whatever. I was going

322
00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:02.440
into the summer and I was playing baseball. I had

323
00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:04.919
signed up to play baseball and our little rec league,

324
00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:08.039
and I also was It turns out I was going

325
00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:09.720
to have to quit baseball because I'd signed up for

326
00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:12.120
a ballet class because I had done a show that spring,

327
00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:15.159
the twelve Dancing Princesses, And I realized, like, oh, if

328
00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:16.279
I want to keep doing this and I want to

329
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.559
grow and in the performance world, I need to I

330
00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:21.840
need to better my skills. I I'm not a dancer

331
00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:23.399
at all, and I'm, you know, a little boy, and

332
00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:25.320
I want to be better at these things. So I'd

333
00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:27.559
spent you know, weeks in this show with these dancers,

334
00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:29.440
these grown men and these women that were dancers and

335
00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:31.720
other younger men who were dancing. I was like, this

336
00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:33.320
is so cool, Like this is what I want. And

337
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:35.840
then I signed up for this dance class and then

338
00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:38.360
was going to have to quit baseball, and the guys

339
00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:40.799
at school, like word got out that I was going

340
00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:43.080
to not be playing baseball because I was taking a

341
00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:47.759
ballet class, and that was like horrible. That was that

342
00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:50.000
was that was a miserable place to be for me

343
00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:53.200
for a moment, and I, frankly just this is its

344
00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:55.159
own thing that I've carried with me forever. I just lied,

345
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:56.919
and I just told those guys, I said, that's not true.

346
00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:58.679
And I don't know where someone's making that up about me.

347
00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:00.360
Someone is lying about me and making that of course

348
00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:02.440
I'm playing baseball, I'm not taking a dance class. And

349
00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:03.799
I went home and said, Mom, you got to cancel

350
00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:06.320
the dance class. I can't do it. So I did

351
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:09.000
not take a dance class and did not start down

352
00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:10.759
my journey of becoming a trouble threat and showed up

353
00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:14.120
to New York as a double threat at best. And

354
00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:15.919
here I am, and I'm not playing baseball either.

355
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:20.960
So the high school I went to was kind of

356
00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:25.840
strange in some ways. We nur's in my class had

357
00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:28.120
a sort of informal reunion a few weeks ago, and

358
00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:30.120
some of us were talking about the fact that it

359
00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:34.919
was this rural farm town kind of kind of kind

360
00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:40.960
of school for grade school, high school kind of the

361
00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.200
same thing, a little bit closer to town, but not

362
00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:49.519
not all that. And it was pretty diverse, honestly, Like,

363
00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:50.919
we didn't have a lot of black kids. The one

364
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:53.559
I was the guy who one of the guys who

365
00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:54.919
set the thing up, It's like, yeah, I was the

366
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:56.360
only black kids. I was like, no, I think there

367
00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:57.240
were like three or four more.

368
00:16:57.279 --> 00:16:59.759
It's like yeah, yeah.

369
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.639
But other than that, it was it was. It was

370
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.319
pretty diverse and pretty accepting, and we got a really

371
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.319
good education for what it was, and I was I

372
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.759
was surprised by that. But in high school, the English

373
00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:14.359
teachers decided that they would give extra credit to anybody

374
00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:17.480
who would attend to play that was put on at

375
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.119
the school or just anywhere, right and so it created

376
00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:27.119
this like you know, social tier of theater kids. Like,

377
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.319
you know, they weren't the jocks, we were not the

378
00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:32.920
you know, the the student government types or whatever. But

379
00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.240
like we were recognizable in that band. And I don't

380
00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:40.240
think I really realized that until that class had a

381
00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:42.200
ten year reunion and there were people talking to me

382
00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:44.160
that I had never had a conversation with him in

383
00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:48.920
high school. Never, no, no, no, no connection, Like we

384
00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:51.359
never said hello in them in the in the hallways

385
00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:55.960
and having conversations because they remembered me doing you know,

386
00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:57.000
whatever I did.

387
00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.960
Yeah, well that's because you were the Yeah you don't.

388
00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:01.920
You don't know them. You're the star, you're the you're

389
00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:04.839
the the headliner up there, and they're they're the ones

390
00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.759
watching you, right Like that's you're not supposed to know them.

391
00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:09.680
They're supposed to remember you as the what shows did

392
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:11.559
you do? What were they were they remembering you from?

393
00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:16.240
Uh, probably the biggest one that they would remember was our.

394
00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:19.359
Town nice all right, Yeah I was.

395
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:24.960
I was the drunk organist in our town. And actually

396
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:29.720
we saw our time on Broadway last year. Actually maybe

397
00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.799
it's early this year. It's early this year, and uh,

398
00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:35.880
South that they're the first two acts and like knew

399
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:38.519
every line. Still it's just really weird. And then the

400
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:40.519
third act came up, and there was so little of

401
00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:43.000
bit that I remember, Like I was actually like in

402
00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:45.920
that act, I was on stage the entire time, and

403
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:47.880
I don't remember any of the lines from it, well

404
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:51.799
not most of them. I guess. Probably the line that

405
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:55.599
I remember the best was do any people ever remember

406
00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.279
or ever ever realize life while they're living it? And

407
00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:01.279
the answer is a lot, you know, we never do.

408
00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:06.000
So and then and then then after after high school,

409
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.799
it's like, I, you know, you would have to audition

410
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:11.640
if you were going to be involved in a college

411
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:13.960
thing or whatever, And I said, I hated I hated

412
00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:16.960
I hated cold reading, I hated auditions. I hated all

413
00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:21.680
that stuff. And then a few years ago, i pre pandemic,

414
00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:24.240
I did some some improv and really liked that a lot.

415
00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:27.039
Yeah that's fine, man, I feel like improv is such

416
00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:29.200
a good thing. I spent years doing some, doing a

417
00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.920
show here in New York called Batsu, which is like

418
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.359
whose Lying kind of kind of show. It's a short,

419
00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:38.400
short game improv show mixed with a Japanese game show.

420
00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:41.000
So it's like if you're if you're funny, you win points.

421
00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:44.079
If you're not funny, horrible things happened to you. So

422
00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:46.359
it's a great time for the audience, it's hit or miss.

423
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:49.680
As a performer, it's gonna be great or awful. But

424
00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.759
for me, that would that the reason I love that

425
00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:54.279
show some one of the reasons I love that show

426
00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:55.799
so much is it just kind of heightens the stakes

427
00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:57.599
of what people think about with improv anyway, which is

428
00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:00.960
like it's it hits so many people get the chance

429
00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.440
to like really face a fear, which is like what

430
00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.240
happens if I make a mistake in front of a

431
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.960
lot of people and it turns out not much, it

432
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.480
turns out it's okay, you know, Like it's a huge fear,

433
00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:13.640
and it's an understandable huge fear. If I make a

434
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.079
fool of myself, if I make a mistake, if I

435
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:17.480
look like I don't know what I'm doing, if I

436
00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:19.960
do something wrong in front of a whole group of people,

437
00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:22.279
what's the worst it's going to happen. Well, for me,

438
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:23.960
it was I might get shot with a paintball gun.

439
00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:28.880
But for people just experiencing improv, it's not much you know,

440
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.720
like you end up, you don't get a laugh, or

441
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:33.440
you get a laugh at something you didn't realize was

442
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:36.839
funny and turns out you're okay. I think people, especially

443
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:40.519
non performers just the in the world, can take a

444
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:43.519
lot from that I was in and it kind of

445
00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:47.519
helped not teach kind of moderate. I helped out with

446
00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:51.160
some improv classes that were targeted for non performers, and

447
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:52.559
it was really just that as like just a way

448
00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:54.680
to get more comfortable in the workspace, get more comfortable

449
00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:56.440
if you have to present, if you have to pitch,

450
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.200
if you just have to talk to people, like learning

451
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:03.160
how to listen, learning how to agree and heighten, and

452
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:06.440
also learning that like when you mess up, probably not

453
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.720
a huge deal, Like that's an okay place to be. Yeah.

454
00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:13.000
I think that with the improv and and actually in

455
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:16.160
scripted stuff too. My biggest fears just going up, just

456
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:19.400
being able to say anything at all. And the nice

457
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.839
thing about improv is that if you're with a good group,

458
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:24.480
someone will jump in.

459
00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:27.680
Yeah. Yeah. If you if you feel like you're going

460
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.279
up in improv, that just means someone is not doing

461
00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:32.240
their job and it doesn't have to be you. Yeah,

462
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:35.960
somebody somebody's gonna come in. It's just like it's ideally

463
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.960
my buddy Chris Alvarado in LA and I'm just just

464
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:40.839
because I want to name drop him, because he's a

465
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:46.119
realiant improvised improvised improvisation teacher. He always talks about like

466
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:49.200
they're sure there's improv for the sake of being funny.

467
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.440
There's trying to build jokes, there's trying to make these

468
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:54.079
things up their funny situations. But but really even the

469
00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:59.359
funniest times come from just listening and just responding naturally.

470
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:01.839
Just like you know, even right now here, I know

471
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.839
we're we're on air and dead eras is bad, but

472
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:06.599
like if we don't talk for a second, it's probably okay.

473
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:08.039
We'll figure out what to say next. Like we don't

474
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:10.640
have to figure out what the punchline is. It just

475
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:13.599
just just having a conversation and when if it's a

476
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:16.960
if it's a kind of a low, a low that

477
00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:19.079
the scenes ends up being kind of low stakes, that's

478
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:20.960
no problem. Then you work on hiding the stakes. You

479
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.680
don't have to worry about like how do I get

480
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:23.880
a funny punchline in here?

481
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:24.039
Now?

482
00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:26.720
How do I how do I make this work? Right

483
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.839
now you can probably just like the more fun comes

484
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:33.240
from just like chilling out and seeing what happens.

485
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.680
Yeah, Like the UCB philosophy is like, don't try to

486
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:40.839
be funny, Yeah yeah, exactly, Yeah, just try to try

487
00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:43.559
to make a real character that does crazy.

488
00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:46.160
Things ultimately, and like some of those like you look

489
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:49.920
at UCB is so funny to me because it clearly

490
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.119
it it was created by and produced some of the

491
00:22:54.160 --> 00:23:00.240
most brilliant comedic minds in our entertainment history. But it

492
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:03.759
also kind of became this like template for everyone was like, oh,

493
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:05.480
what you do is you go to UCP, you go

494
00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:08.200
through the tracks, you graduate, you get an SNL audition,

495
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:10.480
you know, like you book. As you become a writer,

496
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:12.880
you go to the writer's room. There's a track for it.

497
00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:14.839
And it's to me, it's one of the most clear

498
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.359
examples of like, it's not the track that get you there,

499
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:19.880
it's the talent those people that's that were doing that

500
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:21.559
to start with, and the people that built that and

501
00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:24.079
the people that came through there. It wasn't because they

502
00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:27.519
did this track. It's because they themselves were brilliant and

503
00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:30.319
were interested in creating fully fleshed out characters. That then

504
00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:34.720
found themselves in whatever wacky situations, not just like I'm

505
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:36.559
gonna make a far joke or I'm going to like

506
00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:38.160
just try to find a way to make a joke

507
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.039
at someone's expense. Like I'm going to be a fully

508
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:44.440
realized character in what turns out to be an insane situation,

509
00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:45.920
which is hilarious.

510
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.880
Yeah. The other thing that I really loved about it

511
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.160
was before we walk out on stage, everyone does pets51200:23:54.359 --> 00:23:56.799



everybody else on the back and says catch back, and51300:23:57.519 --> 00:24:00.480



you like, how can you feel in that in that environment? Right?51400:24:01.000 --> 00:24:03.680



Yeah, that's great. I'm glad that you got that experience51500:24:03.680 --> 00:24:06.160



and the guy that you felt good about it because51600:24:06.200 --> 00:24:09.359



it is there's so much room there for you know whatever.51700:24:09.759 --> 00:24:11.920



But like not to sound too cheesy, but they're like51800:24:12.079 --> 00:24:13.759



for personal growth and for that team more kind of51900:24:13.799 --> 00:24:16.440



mentality and for feeling good about yourself on stage. And52000:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.119



you know, I think as a professional performer. One of52100:24:19.119 --> 00:24:21.319



the things I had to get over took a couple52200:24:21.359 --> 00:24:23.680



of layers, and I had to get over the jadedness52300:24:23.680 --> 00:24:26.240



of being like, man, everyone including myself, everyone is just52400:24:26.240 --> 00:24:27.799



here for the next thing. I'm only looking for the52500:24:27.880 --> 00:24:29.640



I'm looking for the next bigger gig. I'm using this52600:24:29.680 --> 00:24:31.359



as a as a wrong on a ladder to get52700:24:31.400 --> 00:24:33.359



to the next thing. And all of it became more52800:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.880



enjoyable when I admitted maybe I'm not going to be famous,52900:24:36.920 --> 00:24:38.319



and maybe it's not going to be like a thing53000:24:38.319 --> 00:24:40.279



I do full time all the time. Maybe I just53100:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.480



enjoy it when it happens. Maybe I have fun doing it.53200:24:42.559 --> 00:24:43.920



And that's been much more enjoyable.53300:24:50.759 --> 00:24:53.640



Do you feel like it setting you up for the53400:24:54.119 --> 00:25:00.680



social media kind of virality that, yeah, how did that happened? Exactly?53500:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.480



Because I came in later, so I don't already somebody53600:25:03.519 --> 00:25:03.799



at that.53700:25:03.759 --> 00:25:08.000



Point, Oh thanks, I don't know. It's been such a53800:25:07.519 --> 00:25:09.839



it's it's been a few years now, but also still53900:25:09.880 --> 00:25:12.279



so new, especially like in stages of life. It came54000:25:12.359 --> 00:25:15.279



late enough that it's still very strange to me. It's54100:25:15.359 --> 00:25:17.359



very like I don't really always know what to do54200:25:17.400 --> 00:25:19.920



with it, and I try to mainly have fun with it,54300:25:20.200 --> 00:25:21.799



and then the world goes on, the world gets set54400:25:21.839 --> 00:25:23.319



on fire again, and you got I feel like, well,54500:25:23.319 --> 00:25:24.799



maybe I have to use my voice for something, and54600:25:24.799 --> 00:25:27.880



I never you know, it's always a jumble of what54700:25:27.920 --> 00:25:29.319



do I do with it? But the way that it54800:25:29.400 --> 00:25:37.079



started frankly in the fall of twenty two. I guess54900:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.880



three years ago. I think, yeah, acting was really slow.55000:25:41.920 --> 00:25:44.680



We'd come out of COVID. It was the strikes, so55100:25:44.759 --> 00:25:46.480



maybe it's twenty three. Whatever year that was, I don't55200:25:46.519 --> 00:25:50.200



even remember it, the Writers and Actors strike. We had55300:25:50.240 --> 00:25:52.920



made it through the summer, we were still striking. I55400:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.279



had gotten a job. I hadn't had work. I'd gotten55500:25:55.319 --> 00:25:57.920



a job with my brother in laws company, which I'm55600:25:57.920 --> 00:26:00.440



still doing, which I love the work. And I was good,55700:26:00.440 --> 00:26:01.680



and I was like, you know, I'm gonna step back55800:26:01.680 --> 00:26:03.279



from performing a little bit, like I don't need to55900:26:03.319 --> 00:26:06.920



try to The audition grind is not fun for me.56000:26:07.519 --> 00:26:10.160



I've got kids, Like, I'm not making money doing it.56100:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.880



It's just it's just a stress and I'm getting the56200:26:13.240 --> 00:26:15.400



getting told no all the time is like not as56300:26:15.440 --> 00:26:17.680



good on my sense of self as maybe it once56400:26:17.880 --> 00:26:19.200



was when I felt like I had thicker skin and56500:26:19.240 --> 00:26:21.480



could just like grind out auditions all the time, be56600:26:21.480 --> 00:26:23.039



told no all the time and have it not affected me.56700:26:23.039 --> 00:26:24.200



And I was like, I'm not. I just don't. It56800:26:24.200 --> 00:26:27.039



doesn't feel fun anymore. So I said, like I fully56900:26:27.079 --> 00:26:30.839



felt in like inside I was like, Okay, I'm okay57000:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.400



stepping back a little bit. I'm gonna I won't call57100:26:33.440 --> 00:26:35.920



it her retirement because who cares. I haven't done enough57200:26:35.920 --> 00:26:37.640



to call it her retirement, but I'm gonna like step57300:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.319



back a little bit, and like I'm not kidding. I57400:26:42.279 --> 00:26:44.440



felt like at peace with that. I talked to my57500:26:44.519 --> 00:26:46.720



therapist about it. I was like at peace about it.57600:26:47.079 --> 00:26:49.880



And also throughout this time, I had been I you know,57700:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.720



I was trying to make a presence on social media57800:26:52.839 --> 00:26:56.200



works as an actor. There really is like an expectation57900:26:56.319 --> 00:26:58.599



of having a following if you're gonna at a certain58000:26:58.680 --> 00:27:01.319



level of performance, like TV gigs, I'd go in for it,58100:27:01.359 --> 00:27:03.720



and there were like actual commercials and actual gigs I58200:27:03.759 --> 00:27:05.799



was in for that you would have to have a58300:27:05.839 --> 00:27:07.839



base of one hundred thousand followers to even get in58400:27:07.880 --> 00:27:10.039



the door, you know, or whatever. So it's like it58500:27:10.279 --> 00:27:11.799



became this other thing that was like, Okay, I guess58600:27:11.799 --> 00:27:13.559



I'm supposed to figure this out. I guess I'm supposed58700:27:13.559 --> 00:27:16.160



to try to make a thing work. So I would, like,58800:27:16.480 --> 00:27:18.759



you know, I would post like everyone post, but I58900:27:18.759 --> 00:27:21.319



would also post bits and post things that I was59000:27:21.359 --> 00:27:22.599



trying to you know, trying to make a thing happen59100:27:22.680 --> 00:27:24.559



or whatever, and then fast forward back to this point59200:27:24.559 --> 00:27:26.799



where I've decided I can, I can step back. I can.59300:27:26.960 --> 00:27:28.759



I'm not going to perform as much, and I put59400:27:28.759 --> 00:27:31.519



out a real that, honestly, for the first time in59500:27:31.880 --> 00:27:35.359



months or years, was not for a large not for59600:27:35.359 --> 00:27:38.319



an intended larger audience. It was for me and my friends.59700:27:38.359 --> 00:27:42.400



I thought it was funny, it was about the movies.59800:27:42.920 --> 00:27:44.680



But I was coming in coming off a weekend with59900:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.039



my mother in law. I had had texted and called60000:27:47.079 --> 00:27:49.319



like multiple times to get our Disney Plus passwords so60100:27:49.319 --> 00:27:52.920



that our kids could watch like Blueie, I think because60200:27:52.920 --> 00:27:55.440



they were with her for the weekend. And so first60300:27:55.440 --> 00:27:57.759



of all, I mean, thank you grandmam for having the kids,60400:27:57.799 --> 00:27:59.720



and shout out to the Louis for always being great.60500:27:59.759 --> 00:28:03.079



But I made a reel that was like, I feel60600:28:03.079 --> 00:28:06.359



like we're raising a generation of soft grandparents, because like60700:28:06.400 --> 00:28:08.079



when I was a kid, if I wanted to watch60800:28:08.200 --> 00:28:10.720



TV at my grandmother's house, I had two choices. Well,60900:28:10.759 --> 00:28:12.240



the choices was I could lay in bed with her61000:28:12.240 --> 00:28:14.599



and watch Matt Locker Murder she wrote on TV with her,61100:28:15.000 --> 00:28:16.240



or if I wanted to watch a movie. There were61200:28:16.279 --> 00:28:19.480



two VHS tips. There was Dances with Wolves and Fried61300:28:19.519 --> 00:28:24.119



Green Tomatoes like and which basically what those all have61400:28:24.200 --> 00:28:26.640



in common is murder like as a small child. It61500:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.759



was just so so I kind of put that reel61600:28:29.759 --> 00:28:31.440



out there and it was funny enough. I liked it,61700:28:31.480 --> 00:28:34.440



and I felt I was like, sure, this is funny,61800:28:34.480 --> 00:28:36.319



and also did not feel like it was for a61900:28:36.400 --> 00:28:38.680



large audience. It was for hopefully some people see it62000:28:38.720 --> 00:28:41.039



and laugh, and hopefully my brother and sisters who know62100:28:41.119 --> 00:28:43.799



that that's true, like laugh at it. And I went62200:28:43.839 --> 00:28:47.319



to bed and woke up and like Kristen Bell had62300:28:47.359 --> 00:28:49.400



liked it and someone else famous had shared it, and62400:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.920



I was I had gained ten thousand followers overnight, and62500:28:51.920 --> 00:28:55.680



I was like, oh shit, what and then all of62600:28:55.720 --> 00:28:59.200



that that I don't know, there's there's You could look62700:28:59.200 --> 00:29:00.799



at it from positive health these sides about like I62800:29:00.799 --> 00:29:02.680



got motivated. You could also look at it from more62900:29:02.720 --> 00:29:05.079



self aware sides that say I got a little taste63000:29:05.119 --> 00:29:07.160



of that external validation again and went, oh yeah, I63100:29:07.200 --> 00:29:09.279



forget how good that tastes. Let's get some more. And63200:29:09.319 --> 00:29:13.279



so I just started posting, and you know it, it63300:29:13.519 --> 00:29:16.880



kind of like in the way that momentum works and63400:29:16.920 --> 00:29:20.920



then like the algorithm, the social media algorithms like work,63500:29:20.960 --> 00:29:23.440



but gets work more so in that than anything else,63600:29:23.480 --> 00:29:25.200



I feel like, because it really, it really is like63700:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.759



if you feed the algorithm, it will give you more.63800:29:28.000 --> 00:29:30.559



And so I was, you know, I had a bunch63900:29:30.559 --> 00:29:32.400



of bits. So I did some stand up at the time,64000:29:32.440 --> 00:29:34.319



and so I had like funny kind of stuff that64100:29:34.319 --> 00:29:36.000



I thought was kind of funny and it had never64200:29:36.400 --> 00:29:38.759



been seen by a large audience. So I started putting64300:29:38.799 --> 00:29:42.880



out more videos, just put them out and then guy,64400:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.079



I got some more followers, and to be honest, I64500:29:46.160 --> 00:29:47.680



kind of it was fun and I wasn't really sure64600:29:47.680 --> 00:29:48.960



what to do with it. I got some like you know,64700:29:49.000 --> 00:29:52.319



little like clothing sponsorships and some brand ambassadorships that I64800:29:52.400 --> 00:29:53.920



enjoyed and stuff, and that was that was cool. It64900:29:53.960 --> 00:29:55.400



wasn't like I was making a lot of money or anything.65000:29:55.400 --> 00:29:56.880



But I got some free stuff and made a little65100:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.440



cash and got to put videos out there, and I65200:29:58.480 --> 00:30:01.160



got some feel valid for the things that I thought65300:30:01.240 --> 00:30:04.960



was funny and the perspective that I saw. And then,65400:30:05.240 --> 00:30:07.759



to be totally honest, then the election happened and I65500:30:07.880 --> 00:30:09.960



was kind of heartbroken by this society as a whole,65600:30:09.960 --> 00:30:12.039



with the way that this past presidential election went, and65700:30:12.119 --> 00:30:14.279



I just I made some very honest videos about that,65800:30:14.400 --> 00:30:17.759



and it then shot up again, and so then I65900:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.000



kind of like, yeah, I don't know, hit the point66000:30:20.000 --> 00:30:23.920



where I am now, which I feel like it's nice66100:30:23.960 --> 00:30:26.720



to hear someone talk about it. Like from from my perspective,66200:30:26.759 --> 00:30:28.359



it's like very easy for me to look at it66300:30:28.400 --> 00:30:31.680



and go, yeah, but one hundred whatever whatever it is,66400:30:31.720 --> 00:30:33.759



one hundred and forty thousand followers. I think I dropped again,66500:30:33.799 --> 00:30:36.960



But whatever, one hundred something thousand followers is fine. But66600:30:37.000 --> 00:30:39.119



also it's not where the it's not where the big66700:30:39.200 --> 00:30:40.920



money is. It's not where the it's not where the66800:30:40.960 --> 00:30:43.400



stuff happens is. You know, that's way higher up. And66900:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.680



so for me, it still feels kind of like a lark,67000:30:46.720 --> 00:30:48.640



an enjoyable lark. And it forged me the chance to67100:30:48.839 --> 00:30:50.640



meet people like you and to do my own podcast67200:30:50.680 --> 00:30:52.960



and to at least put my thoughts out there. And67300:30:53.319 --> 00:30:55.079



I kind of feel like, fine, if I'm a middle67400:30:55.119 --> 00:30:57.960



aged man ranting into the abyss of social media, at67500:30:58.039 --> 00:31:00.200



least some people watch mine. I'm not just one of67600:31:00.200 --> 00:31:02.359



those dudes who have three people who ever pay attention67700:31:02.400 --> 00:31:04.240



that like it might be the same, I might be67800:31:04.279 --> 00:31:07.200



scratching the same bitch as every other just dude in67900:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.720



his basement, ranting into the abyss. But you know, some68000:31:09.720 --> 00:31:12.039



people pay attention, so I feel like it's it's to68100:31:12.160 --> 00:31:12.720



some degree.68200:31:13.880 --> 00:31:18.640



Well, well, I definitely paid attention. And I particularly enjoyed68300:31:18.720 --> 00:31:21.880



the take about your son wanting to paint his his68400:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.640



fingernails and you're like being willing to do that and68500:31:25.720 --> 00:31:27.680



just like normalize this, like hey, don't worry about it.68600:31:28.039 --> 00:31:31.359



I don't understand why people still react like that's a68700:31:31.799 --> 00:31:34.000



like a weird or bad thing. I don't understand it68800:31:34.000 --> 00:31:36.720



all because I've known people, for guys for years and68900:31:36.839 --> 00:31:39.359



years more than decades who did that and it was69000:31:39.359 --> 00:31:40.279



not a big deal, Like.69100:31:40.319 --> 00:31:44.200



Yeah, I don't know, it's part of my whole thing.69200:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.079



And I think that's part of why, to be honest,69300:31:46.680 --> 00:31:48.960



why I followed you back was I recognize the day69400:31:49.000 --> 00:31:51.480



you're someone in the industry that you do you know, production,69500:31:51.559 --> 00:31:52.880



and you do this kind of side of things too,69600:31:52.920 --> 00:31:55.119



and you like talking about stuff and also like being69700:31:55.200 --> 00:31:59.400



just a dude, being a man who also isn't so69800:31:59.599 --> 00:32:02.680



fragile that something like a fashion choice someone else makes69900:32:02.920 --> 00:32:05.240



is going to set you off, like it's it should70000:32:05.319 --> 00:32:08.519



not be a big deal. And frankly, I think my70100:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.759



Instagram handle might still say it, but my whole brand70200:32:11.839 --> 00:32:13.400



is kind of like as i've as I've kind of70300:32:13.400 --> 00:32:15.440



crafted what kind of voice I want to have. It's70400:32:15.599 --> 00:32:20.319



just it's weaponizing the mediocrity of men because if people70500:32:20.319 --> 00:32:22.200



didn't give a shit, I wouldn't have a platform. If70600:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.359



people didn't care that, if people didn't care that men70700:32:25.400 --> 00:32:27.680



painted their nails sometimes, I wouldn't have a platform if70800:32:27.720 --> 00:32:31.279



people agreed with me that gender norms are a weakness,70900:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.039



that that you know, gender norms are for the week71000:32:34.079 --> 00:32:36.359



that that's kind of like if people agreed, then no71100:32:36.359 --> 00:32:38.000



one would be surprised that I do the things that71200:32:38.039 --> 00:32:40.920



I do. The only reason that I get I mean,71300:32:41.000 --> 00:32:42.880



I'm glad that people agree with my perspective. I think71400:32:42.920 --> 00:32:44.440



the only reason that it really stands out is because71500:32:44.480 --> 00:32:48.119



it is unique. But but I agree with you, like71600:32:48.160 --> 00:32:51.359



it shouldn't be it should be easy. If you don't71700:32:51.359 --> 00:32:53.720



want to paint your nails, don't paint your nails. If71800:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.720



you think that someone else painting their nails makes them71900:32:56.799 --> 00:32:59.279



in some box that you created you're just wrong, Like72000:32:59.319 --> 00:33:02.039



that's just small, all in weak and so you know,72100:33:02.240 --> 00:33:06.960



I mean to some degree I have joked before too72200:33:07.000 --> 00:33:09.880



that like it's it sucks. I set myself up in72300:33:09.880 --> 00:33:13.799



a situation to do better when things are worse because72400:33:14.319 --> 00:33:16.920



it's it is. Then it's like so surprising to see72500:33:16.920 --> 00:33:19.720



a guy who you know, like we we are of72600:33:19.759 --> 00:33:22.000



a type that people don't really trust a lot these days.72700:33:22.039 --> 00:33:24.400



We have been people we are. We are both of72800:33:24.400 --> 00:33:27.160



a type and have a look and have a profile72900:33:28.079 --> 00:33:32.880



demographic that is been making things harder for people for73000:33:32.920 --> 00:33:36.319



a while, and it's it's a kind of a bummer73100:33:36.880 --> 00:33:40.799



to scale. But it's beneficial to me as an individual73200:33:41.200 --> 00:33:45.039



that people are surprised that I'm not just a jackass.73300:33:45.400 --> 00:33:45.880



Yeah.73400:33:46.599 --> 00:33:48.599



Yeah, I don't even think i'm that. I'm not. I'm73500:33:48.640 --> 00:33:51.200



not that smart, I'm not that progressive, I'm not that73600:33:51.279 --> 00:33:54.440



much of anything. I'm just not so worried about what73700:33:54.440 --> 00:33:56.200



other people are doing with their bodies and their time.73800:33:56.799 --> 00:33:59.480



Yeah, well you're I mean the reason it works is73900:33:59.519 --> 00:33:59.960



that you're author.74000:34:01.640 --> 00:34:03.799



Thank you. That's that's one thing I try. I try74100:34:03.880 --> 00:34:06.039



very hard to be. I do think that like that74200:34:06.079 --> 00:34:09.079



performance background helps kind of like craft story. I can.74300:34:09.159 --> 00:34:10.679



You know, I'm a decent storyteller, and I think I74400:34:11.000 --> 00:34:13.760



can put together an arc. But the bottom line is,74500:34:13.800 --> 00:34:15.840



and I think that's also I will say, I think74600:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.639



that's why that first one worked. It Probably you could74700:34:19.639 --> 00:34:23.400



see consciously or subconsciously with anything I was doing before,74800:34:23.559 --> 00:34:26.239



like the need to be liked, the need to be wanted,74900:34:26.239 --> 00:34:28.840



the need to find the thing that worked, and then75000:34:28.840 --> 00:34:30.480



when it came down to it, it was like just and75100:34:30.519 --> 00:34:33.159



it wasn't like I evolved. It's got beat down so75200:34:33.239 --> 00:34:35.639



far that I couldn't do anything other than just be myself.75300:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.760



Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. You talk a fair75400:34:39.760 --> 00:34:42.360



amount about I touched on this before, about about parenting.75500:34:42.400 --> 00:34:48.760



You've got younger kids, Yeah, and you're pretty involved in75600:34:48.920 --> 00:34:50.039



their day to day.75700:34:50.119 --> 00:34:52.320



I am, yeah, and that's again kind of part of75800:34:52.320 --> 00:34:55.719



that is a product of the environment. My wife is75900:34:55.760 --> 00:34:59.159



because I was a sometimes in work actor, off and76000:34:59.159 --> 00:35:01.719



out of work actor. Wife has a steady job and76100:35:01.880 --> 00:35:04.239



makes more money than I do and has set hours,76200:35:04.280 --> 00:35:06.519



and so when we started having kids, I was the76300:35:06.519 --> 00:35:10.280



stay at home parent. And like we bought a house,76400:35:10.440 --> 00:35:12.800



we bought, we bought a house that needed renovation, so76500:35:12.840 --> 00:35:15.559



I kind of learned to renovate a house. And then76600:35:15.599 --> 00:35:17.039



it was the stay at home dad.76700:35:17.679 --> 00:35:18.760



That's really familiar to me.76800:35:19.079 --> 00:35:22.000



Yeah, yeah, I mean the the YouTube, the YouTube rental76900:35:22.039 --> 00:35:26.599



life is it's very real. I think it's respectable, you know, man.77000:35:26.920 --> 00:35:29.559



So much of what I did was like sort of77100:35:29.599 --> 00:35:32.880



pre YouTube. Honestly, what did you just do?77200:35:32.920 --> 00:35:34.480



You just take swings at it? Did you just figure77300:35:34.480 --> 00:35:35.440



it out? Did you get books?77400:35:35.880 --> 00:35:38.519



I got every book and magazine that I could find77500:35:38.519 --> 00:35:40.800



at home depot that was about whatever I was like,77600:35:40.880 --> 00:35:43.800



So I learned to like set tile and cranie, yeah,77700:35:44.000 --> 00:35:48.840



baseboards and crap like that. And then like I had,77800:35:49.039 --> 00:35:53.559



I had a corporate jobs and just like and I77900:35:53.599 --> 00:35:57.880



worked for a consultancy company for a while whatever, and78000:35:58.800 --> 00:36:04.440



that kind of ended in ninety eight, and we bought78100:36:04.440 --> 00:36:07.039



this house in ninety nine. And I have kind of78200:36:07.079 --> 00:36:09.519



done everything to this house except for like the big78300:36:10.199 --> 00:36:12.079



you know, big construction projects.78400:36:12.159 --> 00:36:12.679



Yeah.78500:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.000



So this has been, you know, going on for twenty78600:36:16.239 --> 00:36:18.960



six years now, and someday I'm going to be done.78700:36:19.719 --> 00:36:24.519



Swear to God. Swear to God. I mean, there's a78800:36:24.559 --> 00:36:26.880



house that had good bones and we're in just a78900:36:26.920 --> 00:36:31.559



phenomenal neighborhood and so like, yeah, I think that. I mean,79000:36:31.639 --> 00:36:35.119



our investment has been probably quadrupled.79100:36:35.320 --> 00:36:37.119



That's great, that's great.79200:36:36.880 --> 00:36:38.480



Which is great, but like at the same time, like79300:36:38.480 --> 00:36:42.239



housing prices shouldn't be what they are. Sure we sort79400:36:42.239 --> 00:36:46.440



of screwed down the supply and really raise the prices,79500:36:46.519 --> 00:36:49.239



and then suddenly we have homeless everywhere. I mean, yeah,79600:36:49.800 --> 00:36:54.119



again benefited from it, but but I get the I79700:36:54.159 --> 00:36:56.800



get the issues around it. Yeah, but I there's a79800:36:56.800 --> 00:36:59.599



lot of sweat equity here. But yeah, just to kind79900:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.199



of letsh out the story, like I was, I was80000:37:02.199 --> 00:37:04.840



in a corporate job and I was offered a position80100:37:05.119 --> 00:37:10.480



in in LA but my uh my wife's father was80200:37:12.079 --> 00:37:15.559



dying of cancer. He had he had terminal kidney cancer.80300:37:16.079 --> 00:37:17.880



And I was like, we don't really want to move80400:37:17.920 --> 00:37:20.719



away from from here. This that's you know, it's a80500:37:20.760 --> 00:37:23.760



six hour drive to LA from from where I am80600:37:23.760 --> 00:37:26.719



in Sacramento. And I said, I can't. I just can't80700:37:26.760 --> 00:37:29.440



right now. And they said, okay, well, you know, I'll80800:37:29.440 --> 00:37:32.639



give you at least a year or so and you'll80900:37:32.639 --> 00:37:36.480



be fine. And then you know, shortly after that, like81000:37:36.920 --> 00:37:39.800



like three or four months later, that that was just81100:37:39.880 --> 00:37:44.960



like forgotten. And so I started working for for that81200:37:45.039 --> 00:37:46.760



guy in the same company that I used to work81300:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.360



for before, and that lasted for a while and then81400:37:49.400 --> 00:37:51.960



it ended. And about the like the same time that81500:37:52.000 --> 00:37:56.559



it ended, our our older son retrospect to what it81600:37:56.559 --> 00:37:58.599



looked like is he had like a viral meningitis, but81700:37:58.639 --> 00:38:03.480



it created this this headache, this car chronic daily headache81800:38:03.480 --> 00:38:05.840



thing that lasted for a good ten years. And so81900:38:07.119 --> 00:38:08.880



I couldn't figure out how I was going to go82000:38:08.960 --> 00:38:12.800



back to work and cover that. And my wife had82100:38:12.800 --> 00:38:17.239



definitely had the ultimately more lucrative job, Like if we82200:38:17.400 --> 00:38:19.719



moved away, I probably would have had had had the82300:38:19.840 --> 00:38:23.880



job that paid more, but we didn't, and and so yeah,82400:38:23.960 --> 00:38:27.440



I ended up being stay at home dad in a way.82500:38:27.679 --> 00:38:31.119



I was like I did everything that I did everything82600:38:31.239 --> 00:38:35.639



I could, but I wasn't good at everything. Like our82700:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.679



younger son, I could never do the homework thing with him.82800:38:38.760 --> 00:38:41.519



He just would not concentrate with me, and and and82900:38:42.440 --> 00:38:43.079



needed mom.83000:38:43.239 --> 00:38:46.159



And so yeah, there's some of that I don't and83100:38:46.199 --> 00:38:49.280



I deal with that too, like I did. Let me ask,83200:38:49.320 --> 00:38:51.440



I guess one of the things I'm always interested in83300:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.320



in other dads that are stayed at home dads, And83400:38:54.360 --> 00:38:56.079



I guess it doesn't matter. But there is kind of83500:38:56.079 --> 00:38:58.199



this like it's it's outside the social norm, right, Like83600:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.519



it's there, we are, it is. It is more rare83700:39:00.599 --> 00:39:01.679



to I have a stay at home dad and have83800:39:01.800 --> 00:39:04.320



the dad doing more of that stuff. And you know,83900:39:04.360 --> 00:39:06.920



I have I'm the oldest of four siblings. I babysat84000:39:06.920 --> 00:39:09.239



when I was a kid. I feel like I've been84100:39:09.239 --> 00:39:12.519



around kids. I understand kids well enough, but there there84200:39:12.639 --> 00:39:14.639



is still and I've you know, and I, like you said,84300:39:14.639 --> 00:39:17.760



I make reels about parenting and I talk about it plenty,84400:39:17.880 --> 00:39:20.000



and I'm proud of being I'm proud to be someone84500:39:20.000 --> 00:39:23.800



who works hard at being a better parent. I also84600:39:23.880 --> 00:39:27.159



still like get it wrong all the time. Like homework84700:39:27.239 --> 00:39:29.760



is one of those times where, like my I still84800:39:30.400 --> 00:39:33.519



it's a daily work. It's daily work for me to84900:39:33.800 --> 00:39:36.239



work on my patients with my kids. My son's in85000:39:36.280 --> 00:39:39.000



first grade, and like just being able to slow down85100:39:39.039 --> 00:39:40.360



enough and get him to focus and get him to85200:39:40.360 --> 00:39:42.840



stay with it. And I start getting frustrated, and you know,85300:39:42.880 --> 00:39:44.480



homework is one of the ways, but there's still plenty85400:39:44.519 --> 00:39:47.000



of ways that, like I get frustrated, the stress comes85500:39:47.000 --> 00:39:48.920



out or I pop off and I get louder than85600:39:48.920 --> 00:39:52.400



I mean too, And I don't know, it's like any85700:39:52.679 --> 00:39:55.440



since you have been through that, and especially like with85800:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.119



a son dealing with something like that as a dad,85900:39:58.159 --> 00:40:03.159



having to deal with something consistent like that, like what, yeah,86000:40:03.360 --> 00:40:06.840



help me? Do you have any advice for for that?86100:40:07.360 --> 00:40:08.960



I don't know, just I don't know if it's about86200:40:08.960 --> 00:40:11.280



how to calm down, how it's what it's about to relate.86300:40:11.320 --> 00:40:13.239



I don't know what it is. I am open to86400:40:13.280 --> 00:40:15.880



any advice that helped me in that more consistent time86500:40:15.920 --> 00:40:16.639



with my kids.86600:40:17.320 --> 00:40:21.840



I think that for me, like at the points that86700:40:21.920 --> 00:40:24.840



it that it failed, I you know, I failed to86800:40:25.639 --> 00:40:29.039



get through whatever you know, he was trying to work on.86900:40:31.920 --> 00:40:34.559



I think I just took it too personally, and I87000:40:34.599 --> 00:40:37.280



took it because I like, Okay, so you're at home,87100:40:37.400 --> 00:40:39.480



and so you've got the responsibility to get through this,87200:40:39.760 --> 00:40:42.079



and then if you can't do it, then that's a failure.87300:40:42.760 --> 00:40:47.360



And so you get like there's a shame component, there's yeah,87400:40:47.719 --> 00:40:51.119



there's a sadness component, there's a you know, a failure87500:40:51.199 --> 00:40:57.079



component to it. And the only ways that I could87600:40:57.119 --> 00:41:04.000



overcome it successfully is to think about the problem entirely87700:41:04.000 --> 00:41:07.760



from the other side. Like how can we how can87800:41:07.800 --> 00:41:11.119



we make this task be a different thing and still87900:41:11.159 --> 00:41:15.320



get through it through it? And my my younger son88000:41:17.320 --> 00:41:24.079



had a sensory processing disorder and he has just terrible88100:41:24.159 --> 00:41:30.199



dysgraphia and was really really challenged by motor planning as88200:41:30.239 --> 00:41:32.800



a kid. So it was it was all freighted with88300:41:32.880 --> 00:41:35.400



that stuff too and figuring out how to how to88400:41:35.760 --> 00:41:41.280



how to move around that. And I think that the88500:41:41.320 --> 00:41:45.679



biggest thing that we learned about that diagnosis was that88600:41:48.800 --> 00:41:52.039



you can sort of put things in different baskets, so88700:41:52.280 --> 00:41:56.440



like you know, like a safety thing is is an88800:41:56.480 --> 00:42:01.760



a basket issue in dealing with the kid, and then88900:42:01.960 --> 00:42:04.519



they're you know, down at the at the bottom, there's89000:42:04.559 --> 00:42:10.159



like a sea basket of things that then if they89100:42:10.159 --> 00:42:12.119



don't happen, if you don't conviscent to them, is like89200:42:12.199 --> 00:42:15.239



who cares, Yeah, and just kind of let go of89300:42:15.239 --> 00:42:17.719



those things as much as possible. And then you probably89400:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.159



do that instinctively anyway.89500:42:19.840 --> 00:42:21.920



But there's some of that, but you're you're totally right,89600:42:22.000 --> 00:42:24.719



and the taking it personally thing is is hard for me,89700:42:24.840 --> 00:42:28.079



but like on on every level, like the obviously kids89800:42:28.079 --> 00:42:30.719



are gonna are gonna push back. Obviously kids are gonna89900:42:31.199 --> 00:42:33.599



choose to not listen because they have little, tiny smooth90000:42:33.639 --> 00:42:35.719



brains that forgot of what you said, or they're choosing90100:42:35.760 --> 00:42:37.800



to try something else. Like those things are all gonna happen.90200:42:38.679 --> 00:42:41.280



And I that's when one place where I have a90300:42:41.280 --> 00:42:44.320



really hard time is I'll get I'll get offended. I'll90400:42:44.320 --> 00:42:47.679



get I can feel being personally offended by my kids90500:42:48.079 --> 00:42:50.320



disobeying me. You know, my kids are six and four90600:42:50.320 --> 00:42:53.119



and a half, like they're that's they're not They're you90700:42:53.119 --> 00:42:55.239



can hardly call it disobeying at that point, but it90800:42:55.280 --> 00:42:59.079



still feels so so deep and offensive, you know, And90900:42:59.079 --> 00:43:00.960



and I really that is certainly a thing I got91000:43:00.960 --> 00:43:02.880



to get better at for everyone's sake. I get to91100:43:02.920 --> 00:43:05.360



kind of chill out for myself, feel feel not as91200:43:06.039 --> 00:43:09.159



disrespected and not as challenged and not as you know,91300:43:09.639 --> 00:43:13.760



poked and threatened and realized like that's not what's happening91400:43:13.840 --> 00:43:16.599



here there. It's a child, and there's there's definitely some91500:43:16.679 --> 00:43:18.280



things that can go on the sea basket and chill91600:43:18.320 --> 00:43:19.599



out on. Yeah.91700:43:19.679 --> 00:43:21.880



They I mean, they're just they're trying to figure out91800:43:21.880 --> 00:43:24.599



how to express themselves and they don't know like the91900:43:24.840 --> 00:43:26.880



rules of appropriateness yet right.92000:43:27.039 --> 00:43:29.320



Yeah, and that's it's always so hard for me to think,92100:43:29.360 --> 00:43:31.639



Like I always I tell myself that, and then in92200:43:31.679 --> 00:43:33.960



the time, in the moment, it's always hard, like I92300:43:34.599 --> 00:43:38.159



accidentally without if I don't think through it. I like,92400:43:38.239 --> 00:43:41.079



I meet my kids within the context of an adult situation.92500:43:41.199 --> 00:43:44.039



They don't have the experience. They don't know if their92600:43:44.039 --> 00:43:46.119



tone offends me, that they've used that tone three times92700:43:46.159 --> 00:43:47.639



in their life. They don't know what tone is. They92800:43:47.679 --> 00:43:50.159



don't know, you know, like and even if they do,92900:43:50.199 --> 00:43:52.039



even if they remember, like, oh, this got a reaction93000:43:52.079 --> 00:43:53.800



from Dad the last time that I use this tone,93100:43:53.880 --> 00:43:56.599



it's still like it's a tiny brain that's brand new93200:43:56.639 --> 00:43:59.000



and figuring this stuff out, you know, Like I to93300:43:59.000 --> 00:44:01.800



to treat that with the gravity of like an adult93400:44:01.800 --> 00:44:03.559



who spoke to me like that, or an adult who93500:44:04.360 --> 00:44:07.639



who blatantly disrespected me or something is like a very93600:44:08.119 --> 00:44:09.639



that's its own thing. I can work on how to93700:44:09.639 --> 00:44:12.199



not take that personally also, but like that's clearly not93800:44:12.239 --> 00:44:13.599



what's happening with a small child.93900:44:14.639 --> 00:44:16.760



We always kind of talk to our kids like they94000:44:16.840 --> 00:44:20.199



were adults, but we received their black children, If that94100:44:20.239 --> 00:44:20.719



makes sense.94200:44:20.840 --> 00:44:23.559



Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. And94300:44:23.599 --> 00:44:25.440



again like that's something I feel like I can easily94400:44:25.559 --> 00:44:27.360



say and talk about and then doing it in the94500:44:27.360 --> 00:44:29.119



moment is a very different thing. But that's a good94600:44:29.159 --> 00:44:29.599



goal to have.94700:44:29.679 --> 00:44:33.719



I like that. But our older son has two boys94800:44:33.760 --> 00:44:37.639



as well, and they are eight and ten now, okay,94900:44:37.800 --> 00:44:42.119



and we spend time with them. I realize that he95000:44:42.239 --> 00:44:46.480



has taken our parenting styles. My wife is not exactly95100:44:46.559 --> 00:44:48.599



the same as mine. He's taken them, fused them together,95200:44:48.639 --> 00:44:50.679



and then sort of taking them up a level because95300:44:50.679 --> 00:44:54.719



his personality, like it's he doesn't have that investment in95400:44:54.800 --> 00:44:58.360



ego at all. I mean, he just doesn't and so95500:44:58.639 --> 00:45:00.760



he is better with his kids than I was with95600:45:00.800 --> 00:45:04.679



my kids. And and that makes me happy all the time.95700:45:04.880 --> 00:45:06.679



Yeah, that's kind of the goal, right, I mean, I95800:45:06.679 --> 00:45:08.360



feel like and I feel like there's also a good95900:45:08.519 --> 00:45:11.760



that that is a that shows well of you too,96000:45:11.800 --> 00:45:13.239



that says that you did the right thing, gave them96100:45:13.239 --> 00:45:16.519



the space to not having that ego is a lack96200:45:16.559 --> 00:45:20.159



of insecurity, which is which is a great way to96300:45:20.400 --> 00:45:22.000



I feel like if I could raise a kid, if96400:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.760



my kids grow up and as adults, they don't have96500:45:24.840 --> 00:45:27.440



a tight hold on ego and they they can be96600:45:27.559 --> 00:45:30.199



secure and who they are to some degree, I think96700:45:30.199 --> 00:45:31.480



you get a little bit of credit for that, for96800:45:31.760 --> 00:45:34.000



putting them in a situation to be able to feel96900:45:34.000 --> 00:45:36.519



that way. And and also my wife and I always97000:45:36.519 --> 00:45:38.920



say like we just want to we want to mess97100:45:38.960 --> 00:45:40.920



our kids up differently than we were messed up. Like97200:45:40.960 --> 00:45:43.119



if you if you do it the same, then you97300:45:43.159 --> 00:45:45.559



didn't learn anything, you know, like just you're gonna do something.97400:45:45.800 --> 00:45:48.840



Something's gonna go wrong, You're gonna there's therapists have jobs97500:45:48.840 --> 00:45:50.840



for forever. There's always gonna be something to talk about,97600:45:50.880 --> 00:45:53.360



you know. But but as long as it's something different,97700:45:53.360 --> 00:45:55.559



that that means we tried and we at least did something.97800:45:55.679 --> 00:45:58.400



We fixed, We fixed the things that we felt we97900:45:58.480 --> 00:46:02.000



might we not even might. Definitely are doing different things98000:46:02.119 --> 00:46:03.880



that are that are giving them their own problems. But98100:46:03.920 --> 00:46:06.360



if it's not the same problems we have, that's that's98200:46:06.400 --> 00:46:08.239



the step that we can feel proud of. I guess.98300:46:09.519 --> 00:46:13.320



The uncontrollable stuff as a parent, like my both of98400:46:13.320 --> 00:46:17.719



my boys have been in therapy as adults to deal98500:46:17.760 --> 00:46:20.199



with those things, things that we're kind of on our hands,98600:46:20.199 --> 00:46:24.119



you know, I don't I don't think that that I98700:46:24.159 --> 00:46:28.079



haven't heard them blame us for anything, which, you know,98800:46:28.119 --> 00:46:30.159



which just feels and it feels good, and then it's98900:46:30.239 --> 00:46:34.840



just situations outside of our control that that drove them99000:46:34.880 --> 00:46:37.239



to feel like they needed to talk to somebody about it.99100:46:37.320 --> 00:46:40.119



And you know, it's I think that's such fair game.99200:46:40.159 --> 00:46:42.800



And it's also it's another thing that just shouldn't be99300:46:42.800 --> 00:46:46.519



afraided at all for men or women or anybody, is99400:46:46.559 --> 00:46:49.840



to go and and talk to it to someone. I99500:46:50.360 --> 00:46:56.320



mean I went weekly for probably three years and then99600:46:56.880 --> 00:47:01.880



cut down to monthly, and then my therapist finally said, look,99700:47:02.159 --> 00:47:03.599



I don't know if we really need to do this99800:47:03.639 --> 00:47:06.639



anymore because basically we're just talking about our lives. He's99900:47:06.679 --> 00:47:09.239



about my age, and it's like, you know, we're I100000:47:09.239 --> 00:47:11.639



don't think I'm offering you any great insight at this point.100100:47:11.679 --> 00:47:13.719



I think you pretty much internalized it. It's like, okay,100200:47:13.760 --> 00:47:17.400



all right, another very moments that I've thought about going back,100300:47:17.480 --> 00:47:22.159



and yeah, I guess I'm okay. I'm okay at the100400:47:22.199 --> 00:47:22.719



end of the day.100500:47:23.960 --> 00:47:26.320



For me, yeah, I think that I started going to100600:47:26.360 --> 00:47:28.400



therapy to work through some things and I've stayed with100700:47:28.440 --> 00:47:30.480



it because well A there's still things to work through,100800:47:30.480 --> 00:47:34.880



but be like my personal approach to it is is100900:47:35.440 --> 00:47:38.559



I think of therapy more as like a personal trainer101000:47:38.559 --> 00:47:40.440



than as a doctor. I think of it more as101100:47:40.440 --> 00:47:44.920



like preventative and continuous than than to fix it for101200:47:45.039 --> 00:47:52.159



than reparative, which you know, and there's different strokes for everyone,101300:47:52.239 --> 00:47:55.239



but for me, the chance to and even like I've101400:47:55.239 --> 00:47:56.559



been with my therapist for a long time, I'm a101500:47:56.559 --> 00:47:58.920



big fan of her, a big kind of therapy. In101600:47:58.960 --> 00:48:01.559



some weeks it is kind of talking. Some weeks it's101700:48:01.679 --> 00:48:04.119



just venting. It's just complaining about things that happen all week.101800:48:04.119 --> 00:48:05.840



I'm not looking for a solution. I'm not I'm not101900:48:05.880 --> 00:48:07.519



even looking for much of a response. I just don't102000:48:07.559 --> 00:48:09.920



have anyone else that will sit quietly and let me102100:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.639



pay them to just word vomit at them for forty102200:48:12.639 --> 00:48:15.679



five minutes. And then sometimes it's like the we you know,102300:48:15.719 --> 00:48:19.480



it's like her. Her kind of insight is more reminding102400:48:19.519 --> 00:48:20.840



me of the things that I know, and then I102500:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.280



get lazy about not doing or not thinking about or102600:48:23.320 --> 00:48:26.400



you know, like I get I get busy or I102700:48:26.440 --> 00:48:28.079



feel busy and I get out of my routines that102800:48:28.119 --> 00:48:30.800



I know help me feel grounded, and she's just like, well,102900:48:30.840 --> 00:48:32.639



are you. I'll come in and I'll have complaints and103000:48:32.679 --> 00:48:34.280



she's like, well, are you doing these things that we103100:48:34.320 --> 00:48:36.039



know work for you? And I say, all right, no,103200:48:36.119 --> 00:48:37.840



I'm not doing any of those, and she says, well,103300:48:37.880 --> 00:48:40.320



probably probably that then that's probably part of the problem.103400:48:40.599 --> 00:48:42.760



So you know, like that's for me. It's like that,103500:48:43.280 --> 00:48:45.480



it's kind of just a touch point, kind of a103600:48:45.480 --> 00:48:48.679



grounding point on a weekly basis. But yeah, if I mean,103700:48:49.119 --> 00:48:52.440



you know, sporadically whatever, like even if you even if103800:48:52.440 --> 00:48:55.760



you do think of it as remparative, great, I just103900:48:55.840 --> 00:48:57.119



I agree with you that there should not be a104000:48:57.159 --> 00:48:59.760



stigma to wanted to talk to someone. I think it's104100:48:59.800 --> 00:49:02.280



weird that we that we have created that stigma.104200:49:02.440 --> 00:49:04.079



Yeah, And I mean I came out of a situation104300:49:04.280 --> 00:49:06.960



like my my my dad was so dead set against104400:49:07.000 --> 00:49:08.840



it and and and really could have used it. And104500:49:08.840 --> 00:49:11.480



my my my without getting into it, my sister was104600:49:11.480 --> 00:49:14.760



a very difficult child. She's a very difficult adult now.104700:49:15.159 --> 00:49:16.639



They did not really know how to deal with her104800:49:16.719 --> 00:49:19.360



at all, and they were they just felt like they104900:49:19.400 --> 00:49:23.119



could gut through it all and they you know, I105000:49:23.239 --> 00:49:26.440



was not their failure there, she was their failure. And105100:49:26.480 --> 00:49:29.760



so that's yeah, it's just reality. It's like there was105200:49:29.920 --> 00:49:36.840



there's no there's no upside to turning off that avenue105300:49:37.320 --> 00:49:40.159



of getting help and and figuring out how to you know,105400:49:40.239 --> 00:49:45.599



how to improve the quality of your life by improving105500:49:45.639 --> 00:49:47.480



the quality of your reactions to your life.105600:49:47.519 --> 00:49:50.480



I guess yeah, I fully like if you think of105700:49:50.519 --> 00:49:52.639



it as any I mean there are some men too105800:49:52.719 --> 00:49:54.599



who have a weird pain in their side but are105900:49:54.599 --> 00:49:56.239



not going to go see a doctor because they'll just106000:49:56.280 --> 00:49:58.039



work itself out, you know. So the same but same106100:49:58.119 --> 00:49:59.639



kind of like thing, like why don't you go go106200:49:59.639 --> 00:50:02.039



get that at dummy? That's it's it's bothering. You should106300:50:02.039 --> 00:50:03.760



get a look at it. It's the same kind of106400:50:03.760 --> 00:50:05.320



thing with your brain, you know. That's how I feel106500:50:05.320 --> 00:50:05.760



about it.106600:50:08.440 --> 00:50:11.880



So, uh, you have a podcast. You have a podcast106700:50:11.960 --> 00:50:13.159



with your best friend.106800:50:13.320 --> 00:50:16.280



I do. Yeah, yeah, my best friend Tom, the No106900:50:16.400 --> 00:50:19.199



Homo Podcast with Jonathan and Tom.107000:50:18.679 --> 00:50:22.320



And he uh he is a gay man and you're107100:50:22.320 --> 00:50:22.880



a straight man.107200:50:23.079 --> 00:50:25.320



Yes, that's the title. We're not being, We're not being107300:50:25.360 --> 00:50:28.840



we're being tongue in cheek. We're not being aggressively insulting.107400:50:30.400 --> 00:50:32.559



I always my reaction to no home or not, but107500:50:32.840 --> 00:50:36.000



pre pre pre being exposed to your podcast. But my107600:50:36.159 --> 00:50:38.039



reaction to that phrase has always been kind of like,107700:50:38.199 --> 00:50:41.920



no all home, because that's because when guys are saying it,107800:50:41.960 --> 00:50:43.920



they very often.107900:50:45.119 --> 00:50:48.440



Yeah, well, than I'm stealing someone. I'm not stealing it108000:50:48.440 --> 00:50:50.000



because I'll give I just don't know what his name was.108100:50:50.000 --> 00:50:51.599



I don't know who the comedian was, but there was108200:50:51.639 --> 00:50:53.880



a comedian who was saying he had he was from108300:50:53.880 --> 00:50:55.760



the Midwest, and he was living in California now and108400:50:55.760 --> 00:50:57.039



he had a friend from the West come out to108500:50:57.039 --> 00:50:59.679



see him and his friend like was hanging out with108600:50:59.679 --> 00:51:01.480



a bunch of hit this this guy's new friends out108700:51:01.519 --> 00:51:04.880



in California, and the friend said, hey, guys, no homo.108800:51:04.960 --> 00:51:06.519



But and someone stopped him and said, oh, we don't,108900:51:06.519 --> 00:51:09.840



we don't say that. And the comedian's point was, you don't.109000:51:10.159 --> 00:51:12.920



You don't interrupt a straight a straight man who just109100:51:12.960 --> 00:51:16.719



said no homo is about to say the sweetest thing109200:51:16.760 --> 00:51:18.960



he's ever said, and he's just scared to say it109300:51:19.000 --> 00:51:21.920



without that. He's scared to see weak and soft. But109400:51:22.039 --> 00:51:25.239



whatever whatever he says next is gonna be beautiful. But109500:51:25.320 --> 00:51:29.920



he just can't say it without saying that, right right.109600:51:29.960 --> 00:51:33.519



It is like I don't know exactly what the word is,109700:51:33.559 --> 00:51:36.440



but just sort of like like setting it aside from109800:51:36.639 --> 00:51:39.440



from anything that could be misconstrued as.109900:51:39.400 --> 00:51:41.480



Yeah, and again, that's that's like back to the kind110000:51:41.519 --> 00:51:45.440



of like fear, the fear based problems with someone else110100:51:45.440 --> 00:51:48.199



painting their nails or with whatever. It's like the idea110200:51:48.239 --> 00:51:50.239



that like if I say something genuine or I say110300:51:50.239 --> 00:51:54.960



something sweet, or I say something complimentary, that someone else110400:51:55.360 --> 00:52:00.119



might think I'm homosexual and that would be such a110500:52:00.119 --> 00:52:05.559



bad thing is such a convoluted It's such a weird110600:52:05.559 --> 00:52:07.880



place to be scared, and it's such a I feel110700:52:08.159 --> 00:52:12.360



genuinely like sad for people who feel that scared and110800:52:12.440 --> 00:52:14.960



that kind of environment, you cannot be vult you cannot110900:52:14.960 --> 00:52:18.239



feel safe being vulnerable. That feels like a really tough111000:52:18.239 --> 00:52:18.679



place to be.111100:52:19.159 --> 00:52:23.719



Mm hm. A thing about the about the fitness world111200:52:23.800 --> 00:52:25.960



that I've that I come from is that it is111300:52:26.280 --> 00:52:30.480



entirely normal for guys to comment on other guys physiques.111400:52:30.519 --> 00:52:36.159



It's sure, and it's sort of the the uh the111500:52:36.880 --> 00:52:39.159



touch phrase right now is like you're not really working111600:52:39.159 --> 00:52:41.400



out for for women, You're working out for other guys111700:52:41.639 --> 00:52:44.760



because that's who notices the most, right. Yeah, and and111800:52:45.079 --> 00:52:48.519



that's that's where you're trying to gain, you know, respect111900:52:48.559 --> 00:52:55.599



and currency and whatever. Having said that, I looked at112000:52:55.639 --> 00:52:59.239



your IMDb a little bit and to try to refamiliarize112100:52:59.239 --> 00:53:00.559



myself with some of the things that I may have112200:53:00.559 --> 00:53:03.599



seen you in. And you're in an episode of a112300:53:03.639 --> 00:53:06.679



show that's probably like one of the most brilliantly constructed112400:53:06.719 --> 00:53:09.920



shows of all time, and it sucks that isn't still112500:53:10.000 --> 00:53:11.559



running and that's high maintenance.112600:53:12.079 --> 00:53:13.360



Yeah, I agree with you. It is one of the112700:53:13.400 --> 00:53:16.400



most brilliant contructed shows of all time. Yeah.112800:53:16.920 --> 00:53:18.800



The first time I thought, I was like, actually, it's112900:53:18.800 --> 00:53:20.599



probably the second episode that I saw. I was like,113000:53:20.679 --> 00:53:23.599



oh wait, this is just an anthology with it with113100:53:23.760 --> 00:53:27.320



really one character that is the string through the whole,113200:53:27.920 --> 00:53:34.400



through the whole thing. You're pretty undressed in that, not113300:53:34.599 --> 00:53:38.079



as much as the other guy who got to hang113400:53:38.159 --> 00:53:41.920



Dong and so was there like a coin flip about113500:53:41.920 --> 00:53:43.199



who was going to hang do in that?113600:53:43.519 --> 00:53:45.719



Or I mean I think that objectively, he might have113700:53:45.800 --> 00:53:48.119



the better dog to put on screen. So you know,113800:53:48.199 --> 00:53:51.440



mine makes a quick appearance, but it's it's literally you know,113900:53:51.519 --> 00:53:57.960



no small parts. But that Yeah, that's funny. That what114000:53:58.039 --> 00:53:59.920



a great setup for that for that too, because I114100:54:00.920 --> 00:54:04.559



agree with everything you said and it so my wife114200:54:04.599 --> 00:54:06.360



and I found that show. Actually Tom introduced me to114300:54:06.400 --> 00:54:08.199



that show when it was just a web series. It114400:54:08.239 --> 00:54:11.320



was just online and you know, Ben Sinclair and Katie114500:54:11.320 --> 00:54:15.880



Blitchfield were New York. Katya Is was a casting Cutty114600:54:15.960 --> 00:54:20.199



was in casting and kind of like the web series,114700:54:20.280 --> 00:54:22.880



A lot of it was this anthology because they knew114800:54:22.920 --> 00:54:25.599



all of these brilliant actors in New York that weren't114900:54:25.599 --> 00:54:28.079



getting steady work just because that's the business, because they115000:54:28.119 --> 00:54:29.960



weren't you know, the dogs weren't fitting. But they had115100:54:29.960 --> 00:54:33.519



all these brilliant UH performers that they knew, and they115200:54:33.519 --> 00:54:36.159



just kind of started giving them a chance to uh115300:54:36.599 --> 00:54:39.159



to work on these characters and like really and these115400:54:39.320 --> 00:54:42.039



these characters from the web series were just incredible and yeah,115500:54:42.079 --> 00:54:44.679



it's like this one guy, this pot dealer, who he's115600:54:44.719 --> 00:54:48.119



the through line, but it's really just everyone that he meets, right,115700:54:48.199 --> 00:54:50.719



and so it's like the the web series. And then115800:54:50.719 --> 00:54:52.360



it was so excited to see I was so excited115900:54:52.400 --> 00:54:54.519



to see it get picked up for a first season116000:54:54.519 --> 00:54:58.800



on HBO and really thought that like it did what116100:54:58.840 --> 00:55:00.679



I what I what I was so happy to see116200:55:00.800 --> 00:55:04.480



is like, you know you have you got a brilliant idea,116300:55:04.960 --> 00:55:08.559



you've got brilliant talents. You get some money, you might116400:55:08.599 --> 00:55:10.079



sell out, you might be able to make what you want,116500:55:10.159 --> 00:55:12.639



or you might feel like you're supposed to meet some116600:55:13.039 --> 00:55:16.440



studio standard or something. And I thought those guys really116700:55:16.440 --> 00:55:18.559



stuck to their guns. I'm not that they had I'm116800:55:18.559 --> 00:55:20.000



not sure they got any pushback at all, but they116900:55:20.239 --> 00:55:22.360



chose to stick with what they wanted, what they did best,117000:55:22.800 --> 00:55:25.760



and it showed. And the first season on HBO was117100:55:25.880 --> 00:55:28.440



just I loved every moment of it. And then I117200:55:28.559 --> 00:55:31.440



got a chance audition and ended up getting booked in117300:55:31.480 --> 00:55:35.440



this season two premiere, and yeah, it was like I117400:55:35.480 --> 00:55:41.199



had a writer that came with the offer that listed117500:55:41.320 --> 00:55:45.840



in graphic detail a bunch of scenarios that may or117600:55:45.920 --> 00:55:47.760



may not that I may or may not be asked117700:55:47.880 --> 00:55:52.719



to film in simulated sexual kind of ways. And I117800:55:52.719 --> 00:55:54.440



said to my my wife, I was like, look, look,117900:55:54.519 --> 00:55:56.199



let's look read this. This is what it says. I118000:55:56.239 --> 00:55:57.480



kind of feel like they're just trying to cover their118100:55:57.519 --> 00:55:59.360



basis here, like depending on like just so like if118200:55:59.400 --> 00:56:01.360



something comes up with the day, I can't say we118300:56:01.400 --> 00:56:06.079



didn't discuss this, you know, and also I do. I118400:56:06.119 --> 00:56:07.880



feel like we trust them because we love the show118500:56:07.920 --> 00:56:10.000



so much. I feel like this episode is going to118600:56:10.000 --> 00:56:11.840



be an important episode of TV because of what they're118700:56:11.880 --> 00:56:15.599



doing with it, and so I like, you know, and118800:56:15.639 --> 00:56:19.440



I out of respect for honestly to my wife, do118900:56:19.519 --> 00:56:23.039



you are you comfortable if I shoot a simulated male119000:56:23.119 --> 00:56:25.320



male female threesome in a hotel room for a couple119100:56:25.320 --> 00:56:28.039



of days? And she was like, yeah, okay, whatever, sure,119200:56:28.599 --> 00:56:32.440



So you know, we did, and it was it was119300:56:32.480 --> 00:56:34.840



so much fun. It was so much fun. And then119400:56:34.960 --> 00:56:38.559



I really do feel proud to have been a part119500:56:38.639 --> 00:56:40.599



of that story. I thought it was such a cool119600:56:41.840 --> 00:56:44.000



version of telling a story. It was kind of like119700:56:45.000 --> 00:56:47.679



it was, you know, it's it's it's season it's season two,119800:56:47.719 --> 00:56:49.920



episode one. It's called the Globo, and it's just like119900:56:50.320 --> 00:56:53.800



a world event happens and it's never mentioned. I don't120000:56:53.840 --> 00:56:55.719



know what it is, but you know that it's important.120100:56:56.320 --> 00:56:58.280



And then you just kind of meet people throughout the120200:56:58.320 --> 00:57:00.360



day in New York because of again the anthology style120300:57:00.360 --> 00:57:03.800



of this, you're meeting people who like frankly, everyone you120400:57:03.800 --> 00:57:05.519



meet that they has a reason to not be paying120500:57:05.559 --> 00:57:08.199



attention to the main story. They either like learn about120600:57:08.239 --> 00:57:10.239



it in real time, you know, or like weren't paying120700:57:10.280 --> 00:57:13.000



attention to it at all or whatever. And like I120800:57:13.480 --> 00:57:16.480



thought that was such a cool way to tell the story,120900:57:16.519 --> 00:57:19.280



to to like show something that is clearly important that121000:57:19.320 --> 00:57:21.559



they their world building is so good. They build this,121100:57:21.800 --> 00:57:24.559



they make it very clear that this is very important121200:57:24.639 --> 00:57:28.079



on a national, international, some kind of big time scale,121300:57:28.199 --> 00:57:31.280



and then also zoom in so close to see like121400:57:31.719 --> 00:57:33.719



people are still living their lives and going to have121500:57:33.719 --> 00:57:35.079



to figure out how to deal with this, but there's121600:57:35.079 --> 00:57:38.880



still life still goes on, life still happens, and there's121700:57:38.920 --> 00:57:43.400



like it's called Globo, which is oh man, I'm really121800:57:43.400 --> 00:57:46.000



gonna get this wrong with now Spanish for all maybe121900:57:46.039 --> 00:57:50.239



or balloon or sphere balloon, balloon, okay, yeah, yeah, and yeah,122000:57:50.320 --> 00:57:51.800



so this is like great moment near the end where122100:57:51.840 --> 00:57:54.079



it's just like a subway train, like a tin a122200:57:54.079 --> 00:57:56.400



subway car in New York late at night with a122300:57:56.440 --> 00:57:59.679



balloon bouncing around, you know, and like it's it's this somber,122400:58:00.320 --> 00:58:04.400



very heavy, dark day but also you know, there's like122500:58:04.400 --> 00:58:06.519



a little kid playing with a balloon, and it I122600:58:06.679 --> 00:58:10.159



just taking myself out of it even like wepped at122700:58:10.159 --> 00:58:12.199



that episode. I thought it was such good storytelling on122800:58:12.239 --> 00:58:15.320



their part, and I mean on a on a I122900:58:15.480 --> 00:58:17.119



I if I can for a second, like it was silly.123000:58:17.320 --> 00:58:19.599



The threesome was like it was kind of shock value silly.123100:58:19.639 --> 00:58:21.039



It was like a you know, in your face kind123200:58:21.079 --> 00:58:22.280



of thing. But if you were to go back and123300:58:22.280 --> 00:58:24.599



pay attention to it, you realize that it's a male123400:58:24.719 --> 00:58:26.719



male male female male. How do you want to say it?123500:58:26.719 --> 00:58:29.239



Two dudes and a woman in a threesome, And it123600:58:29.280 --> 00:58:32.519



is not at all in the vein of like the123700:58:32.559 --> 00:58:34.840



pornography you would see that that that that kind of thing,123800:58:34.920 --> 00:58:37.800



like it is actually like female centric. It's about the123900:58:37.800 --> 00:58:39.719



two of us like wanted to pay attention to her,124000:58:39.880 --> 00:58:41.639



you know, and like and so it's a little stuff124100:58:41.679 --> 00:58:44.840



like that. But it's not like some kind of grotesque,124200:58:45.039 --> 00:58:48.119



you know, grotuitous kind of bang out threesome. It's like124300:58:48.599 --> 00:58:50.320



and it is list some shock value. There's definitely like124400:58:50.360 --> 00:58:52.920



some scenarios created that are that are meant to be124500:58:53.079 --> 00:58:56.280



kind of like surprising shock value, but it's still built124600:58:56.280 --> 00:58:58.880



around the idea of like she's in charge the whole124700:58:58.920 --> 00:59:01.280



time she is running, that she's running that whole scenario.124800:59:02.320 --> 00:59:05.880



And so even in that kind of like sexuality, that124900:59:05.920 --> 00:59:08.440



shock factor kind of way, it wasn't. It was done125000:59:08.480 --> 00:59:12.480



incredibly intentionally and incredibly like, uh, delicately and smartly. And125100:59:12.519 --> 00:59:14.400



I just love that about the way that they made125200:59:14.440 --> 00:59:15.000



that whole show.125300:59:16.039 --> 00:59:18.280



So I actually have a question that might be a125400:59:18.280 --> 00:59:22.719



shock value thing related to that. So there's a there's125500:59:22.760 --> 00:59:24.960



a point at which your character is talking on the125600:59:25.000 --> 00:59:30.000



phone and I think it's to his mom, and then125700:59:30.039 --> 00:59:33.239



the other guy takes over the phone, it takes over125800:59:33.280 --> 00:59:37.280



the conversation. Are they supposed to be brothers? Yeah, that's125900:59:37.280 --> 00:59:40.880



what I thought that I was not on that.126000:59:41.000 --> 00:59:43.079



Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's the kind of the that's the126100:59:43.280 --> 00:59:46.599



the twist to our scene. There's yeah, and she doesn't126200:59:46.599 --> 00:59:47.760



know that. That's kind of like the point is like126300:59:47.800 --> 00:59:50.880



she learns that in that time too. So I think126400:59:50.920 --> 00:59:53.360



at the end, I think at the very end, like126500:59:53.360 --> 00:59:55.480



the credit scene, is her like scrubbing herself hard on126600:59:55.519 --> 00:59:58.280



the shower because she's with the fact that, yeah, she's126700:59:58.320 --> 01:00:02.119



just she just had an all night through with two brothers. Yeah,126801:00:02.159 --> 01:00:04.400



and they're totally cool with it. They're like they took126901:00:04.400 --> 01:00:06.519



it exactly in stride. They weren't worried about it at all,127001:00:06.599 --> 01:00:09.440



Like literally talking on the phone to mom and then127101:00:09.679 --> 01:00:11.199



just say like, hey, mom wants to talk to you,127201:00:11.320 --> 01:00:13.760



and that's like like not missing a beat and she's127301:00:13.840 --> 01:00:14.239



just like what.127401:00:19.000 --> 01:00:22.840



So I have to say, you were quite muscular in127501:00:22.920 --> 01:00:24.760



that in that scene.127601:00:26.639 --> 01:00:28.920



Thanks. I used to I used to enjoy. I mean,127701:00:28.960 --> 01:00:30.639



I still like working out, but I cross fitted for127801:00:30.679 --> 01:00:34.480



a long time and was I like working out. I mean,127901:00:35.199 --> 01:00:36.639



that's one of the things I appreciate. That's one of128001:00:36.639 --> 01:00:38.280



the reasons that I like checking out what you got128101:00:38.280 --> 01:00:40.599



going on too, is I appreciate lifting heavy, and I128201:00:40.599 --> 01:00:43.159



appreciate I don't have the chance to have as much128301:00:43.840 --> 01:00:46.159



like my physique. Is it maybe what I had time128401:00:46.199 --> 01:00:48.360



to make it or the motivation or focus or whatever128501:00:48.440 --> 01:00:49.800



to make it, you know before in my life. But128601:00:49.840 --> 01:00:52.599



I do think of it like it's something that I love.128701:00:52.679 --> 01:00:54.760



It's a way to get stuff, it's a way to128801:00:54.800 --> 01:00:56.920



deal with stuff, you know, it's a way to keep active.128901:00:56.960 --> 01:01:01.880



And yeah, I love working out. It's always a a129001:01:01.920 --> 01:01:04.079



fun place to put focus.129101:01:05.159 --> 01:01:08.360



I heard you staying there your podcast that you you're129201:01:08.519 --> 01:01:11.360



boxing again, and I just want to thank you for it.129301:01:11.440 --> 01:01:18.760



Not being Jiu jitsu, not that I have anything against129401:01:19.039 --> 01:01:21.719



jiu jitsu, but it's like become a little bit or129501:01:21.760 --> 01:01:22.960



maybe a lot of a cliche.129601:01:23.280 --> 01:01:25.719



Yeah, it definitely has. And look, I'm not going to129701:01:25.760 --> 01:01:28.519



act like I didn't look for BJJ jim around that129801:01:28.519 --> 01:01:30.719



I could have gotten into some more of it, but129901:01:31.239 --> 01:01:34.639



it wasn't it wasn't accessible, so I just stuck with boxing.130001:01:34.679 --> 01:01:37.360



And I do I agree with you though, there's a130101:01:37.360 --> 01:01:40.840



real like the kind of like optimized world has also130201:01:40.920 --> 01:01:45.639



taken a real liking to jiu jitsu, which which they130301:01:45.920 --> 01:01:49.639



should and could I mean, an incredible sport, incredible art.130401:01:50.000 --> 01:01:53.440



But yeah, it's definitely on a trend wave right now130501:01:53.480 --> 01:01:53.880



for sure.130601:01:54.480 --> 01:01:59.079



Yeah, we here in Sacramento, we had or have have130701:01:59.199 --> 01:02:00.760



had your favor.130801:02:02.079 --> 01:02:03.800



You UFC Focus.130901:02:04.039 --> 01:02:07.239



I knew you know, the the building that our gym131001:02:07.280 --> 01:02:11.280



is in now was another gym years ago and a131101:02:11.320 --> 01:02:14.519



lot of those people came in for conditioning work with131201:02:14.599 --> 01:02:17.320



a with a friend of ours and uh so got131301:02:17.360 --> 01:02:18.960



to meet a lot of those guys and hang out131401:02:18.960 --> 01:02:23.639



a little bit or whatever. We had Aryah on this131501:02:23.719 --> 01:02:27.960



show so years ago, four or five years ago, and131601:02:28.840 --> 01:02:29.960



I don't know if you would pick me out of131701:02:29.960 --> 01:02:33.559



a crowd now, but I do, I do know it sort.131801:02:33.320 --> 01:02:36.400



Of so.131901:02:38.199 --> 01:02:42.960



In in something of a conclusion, there's like, the world132001:02:43.000 --> 01:02:50.280



is very crazy right now and it's divisive in a132101:02:50.320 --> 01:02:53.360



way that I have a difficult time understanding. And there's132201:02:53.400 --> 01:02:57.480



a component to it that has to do with that.132301:02:57.679 --> 01:03:02.639



With entertainment, my wife and I went to see I132401:03:02.679 --> 01:03:05.719



don't know if you know who Samin Nocerat is Salt132501:03:05.760 --> 01:03:06.519



Fat Acid Heat.132601:03:06.599 --> 01:03:08.360



Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay.132701:03:08.400 --> 01:03:13.960



So she and Rashie Shrway, who does the Song Exploder podcast.132801:03:14.039 --> 01:03:19.039



He was on West Wing Weekly for a long time132901:03:19.119 --> 01:03:23.320



and they started a podcast during COVID and they did133001:03:23.360 --> 01:03:25.039



it was very limited run. It was only supposed to133101:03:25.079 --> 01:03:27.079



be like four episodes, and now they've done like twenty133201:03:27.079 --> 01:03:31.119



something episodes over like four or five years, just as133301:03:31.519 --> 01:03:34.480



as time allows. They come on to do a podcast133401:03:34.719 --> 01:03:38.519



about cooking, which is called Home Cooking, and she is133501:03:38.599 --> 01:03:42.880



releasing an or just released a new book a many133601:03:42.960 --> 01:03:46.400



years later, follow up to Salt Fat Act Heat, And133701:03:46.639 --> 01:03:50.679



they did an event in San Francisco over the weekend133801:03:50.800 --> 01:03:54.360



that my wife and I went to. Theater was full,133901:03:54.599 --> 01:03:58.800



it was like sold out, a ton of people and134001:03:59.039 --> 01:04:02.119



I'm sitting there wondering, like, what is it about about134101:04:02.119 --> 01:04:06.440



this that I enjoy? And like, I mean, I'm not134201:04:06.480 --> 01:04:08.960



a cook, but I do cook, but I'm not like134301:04:09.039 --> 01:04:11.639



a cook. This is not not my obsession. I don't134401:04:11.840 --> 01:04:14.960



think about all this stuff all the time. So what134501:04:14.960 --> 01:04:20.639



what am I enjoying about this? Well? They're both very warm.134601:04:21.760 --> 01:04:27.880



They they're not they don't use divisive language about anything. Uh,134701:04:29.000 --> 01:04:34.480



They're very focused on making people feel good about about134801:04:34.519 --> 01:04:38.920



what they're talking about. Rishi is like awesome at constructing134901:04:38.960 --> 01:04:41.519



content because he put together this, you know, the way135001:04:41.559 --> 01:04:44.280



the show flowed and it was it was like it135101:04:44.400 --> 01:04:46.400



was funny and it was informative and it was just135201:04:46.480 --> 01:04:50.840



it was just perfect. And then I asked myself, well,135301:04:53.639 --> 01:04:59.400



like a content creator was killed last year, and my135401:04:59.519 --> 01:05:04.119



engagement with that contact content was was pretty minimal outside135501:05:04.119 --> 01:05:07.920



of a few things. And I know I didn't enjoy it,135601:05:09.400 --> 01:05:13.800



but some people obviously do. And I don't know what's135701:05:13.960 --> 01:05:20.039



different about people who enjoy like one type of entertainment135801:05:20.039 --> 01:05:22.159



you can't take. I don't think we can take entertainment135901:05:22.159 --> 01:05:26.360



out of politics in twenty twenty five, and we haven't136001:05:26.360 --> 01:05:29.719



been able to for a long time, and our elections136101:05:29.760 --> 01:05:35.440



seemed to be one on often on the candidate's presentation136201:05:36.559 --> 01:05:39.719



and the way that they connect to an audience. So136301:05:39.760 --> 01:05:41.119



I just wonder what your thoughts are on that.136401:05:43.840 --> 01:05:49.880



Yeah, uh, it's it's hard to not feel sometimes like136501:05:50.280 --> 01:05:54.000



the divisiveness. Also like once you once you see it happening,136601:05:54.000 --> 01:05:56.119



and because I'm kind of with you, like it feels,136701:05:56.840 --> 01:06:00.280



it makes me feel kind of crazy. Sometimes I think136801:06:00.320 --> 01:06:06.159



that I think that there are some big, bigger, kind136901:06:06.199 --> 01:06:08.760



of more universal things at play. I think that it137001:06:08.880 --> 01:06:13.559



is anger. So my therapist always says, and has got137101:06:13.559 --> 01:06:16.320



it drilled into my head that anger is a secondary emotion.137201:06:16.760 --> 01:06:20.199



Anger is always a reaction to another feeling. Often it's137301:06:20.239 --> 01:06:23.400



sadness or fear or whatever else is happening. But anger137401:06:23.480 --> 01:06:29.000



is a protective secondary emotion. But that takes work to see.137501:06:29.039 --> 01:06:31.320



It takes the time, it takes the willingness, it takes137601:06:31.320 --> 01:06:33.559



the effort to notice that that's true and then to137701:06:34.079 --> 01:06:37.039



dissect it beyond that even and I think that what137801:06:37.119 --> 01:06:40.679



ends up happening is not because people are dumb or lazy,137901:06:40.880 --> 01:06:43.679



but just the easier it is. It is it takes138001:06:43.760 --> 01:06:46.760



less work, and so it is by definition easier to138101:06:47.039 --> 01:06:50.280



let the anger lead than to figure out why the138201:06:50.280 --> 01:06:53.239



anger is there and to do self reflection because of138301:06:53.280 --> 01:06:58.000



that anger. So anger is an easily weaponized feeling, it's138401:06:58.039 --> 01:07:03.960



an easily cohesy, cohesing, cohesive bringing people together. It's an138501:07:03.960 --> 01:07:06.679



easy thing to get together on. It's hating the same138601:07:06.679 --> 01:07:09.480



thing is a thing that can really bond people. And138701:07:09.559 --> 01:07:13.360



so I think that kind of to scale. And I138801:07:13.360 --> 01:07:16.519



think that some of these content creators who have big138901:07:16.559 --> 01:07:22.760



platforms some of that is because of the anger that139001:07:22.800 --> 01:07:25.679



they're able to gin up that they are able to generate.139101:07:25.760 --> 01:07:27.519



Instead of looking at any of it and say, why139201:07:27.559 --> 01:07:30.199



are we scared of these things? Why are we you know,139301:07:31.480 --> 01:07:33.719



should we look into this further? And should any should139401:07:33.760 --> 01:07:35.920



we be paying attention to the fact that this content139501:07:35.960 --> 01:07:41.280



creator is is is using miss is just lying, is139601:07:41.320 --> 01:07:44.599



just using non facts all the time to make their points.139701:07:44.599 --> 01:07:46.480



Should we be looking into that or should we just139801:07:47.239 --> 01:07:49.599



recognize that it makes us feel good to be angry139901:07:49.639 --> 01:07:51.119



at the same thing, and so we're just going to140001:07:51.159 --> 01:07:53.599



stay angry at it and then let that anger keep140101:07:53.639 --> 01:07:57.039



going and frothing and grow wider. And I just think140201:07:57.079 --> 01:08:01.159



that because because even on a more progressed, more you know,140301:08:01.639 --> 01:08:04.840



understanding ish side of things. It's still even for me140401:08:04.920 --> 01:08:08.440



as a creator, it is I am nine times out140501:08:08.480 --> 01:08:10.039



of ten. Part of this is human nature. Part of140601:08:10.039 --> 01:08:13.039



this is the algorithm itself wanting to build things. You know,140701:08:13.119 --> 01:08:16.439



I think that it's become pretty clear that negative energy140801:08:16.479 --> 01:08:18.920



fuels more views, keeps people locked in more so it140901:08:18.960 --> 01:08:21.520



sells more ad space. So it's like it's more profitable141001:08:21.600 --> 01:08:24.079



to keep people angry. So part of its human nature.141101:08:24.119 --> 01:08:28.800



Part of it is being exponentially gassed up by the141201:08:28.840 --> 01:08:34.760



algorithms and by you know, computers. But it my reels141301:08:34.800 --> 01:08:37.359



even do better when there is a call out of someone,141401:08:37.399 --> 01:08:39.119



or there's a finger point at someone, or there's something141501:08:39.199 --> 01:08:41.119



kind of sassy to it. There's some kind of like141601:08:41.199 --> 01:08:43.359



chest puffing of some kind. You know, even if it's141701:08:43.359 --> 01:08:46.640



from a progressive perspective, if it is like kind of141801:08:46.640 --> 01:08:50.159



picking a fight. In fact, literally inviting Nick flint As141901:08:50.239 --> 01:08:54.199



to a fight is probably my biggest real ever. You know,142001:08:54.279 --> 01:08:57.680



that one went nuts. I was painting my nails and142101:08:58.159 --> 01:08:59.920



inviting Nick flint As to meet me for a chair142201:09:00.119 --> 01:09:03.439



boxing match, and that one went big time. Because people142301:09:04.079 --> 01:09:06.760



it anger is easy to connect on, and anger is142401:09:06.800 --> 01:09:09.840



easy to it's it's it's it's easier to feel anger142501:09:09.920 --> 01:09:11.279



than to figure out where that anger is coming from.142601:09:11.319 --> 01:09:14.560



And I think that there are plenty of creators at142701:09:14.600 --> 01:09:16.960



the at the content creation level and at the actual142801:09:16.960 --> 01:09:21.039



political leadership level that recognize that, and instead of trying142901:09:21.039 --> 01:09:24.880



to motivate people to move past that, it would rather143001:09:25.079 --> 01:09:27.680



weaponize it and monetize it and stay right there at143101:09:27.680 --> 01:09:32.560



the anger point. And I you know, I that without143201:09:32.600 --> 01:09:35.279



any moral statement one by the other, when you do that,143301:09:35.399 --> 01:09:36.800



you're going to end up with a lot of anger143401:09:36.920 --> 01:09:39.640



and anger. People are going to do things out of anger,143501:09:39.840 --> 01:09:44.920



and you end up with violent situations and angry situations143601:09:44.920 --> 01:09:47.439



that are that are that can't be undone.143701:09:47.680 --> 01:09:53.319



Yeah, that you can't control. Yeah, yeah, because I I143801:09:53.319 --> 01:09:55.479



I don't feel and find that those appeals work on143901:09:55.640 --> 01:09:59.359



me for either side, to be honest, Like, if I144001:09:59.359 --> 01:10:01.399



get angry again, it's over with pretty quickly because I144101:10:01.399 --> 01:10:03.640



started thinking about the logic behind it, and like, what144201:10:04.039 --> 01:10:07.079



you know, But let me ask you a lifted related144301:10:07.119 --> 01:10:11.239



a lifting related question that ties back to this. If144401:10:11.279 --> 01:10:14.560



you were going to like hit a big squad or144501:10:14.560 --> 01:10:19.560



a big bench or whatever, or a deadlift, are you144601:10:19.680 --> 01:10:21.800



the type of person who would have to hype up144701:10:21.800 --> 01:10:24.239



for that or will you just walk in and go.144801:10:24.640 --> 01:10:29.239



That's a good question, I am. It depends. I guess.144901:10:29.319 --> 01:10:30.800



I look back through my history and if I if145001:10:30.800 --> 01:10:32.159



I did it right now, I would not be lifting145101:10:32.199 --> 01:10:34.920



too heavy. But I was trying to max out on145201:10:34.960 --> 01:10:39.600



something I feel like. I feel like my Olympic lifts.145301:10:39.880 --> 01:10:42.600



I kind of jazz up for I would get get145401:10:42.640 --> 01:10:44.840



in a while, pump the blood up, I would get145501:10:44.840 --> 01:10:46.079



things moving because I want to step up to the145601:10:46.119 --> 01:10:47.840



bar and not think at all about what comes next.145701:10:47.880 --> 01:10:49.479



And I want to have everything pumping and being able145801:10:49.520 --> 01:10:53.319



to move and drop onto this weight. But if I'm squatting,145901:10:53.840 --> 01:10:56.720



I don't. I'm mean, I have to focus in you know,146001:10:56.800 --> 01:10:59.760



if it's if, it's if if the if. I'm dealing146101:10:59.760 --> 01:11:01.720



with the fear of what if I get stuck under here?146201:11:01.760 --> 01:11:03.920



What if this actually goes poorly?146301:11:04.039 --> 01:11:04.199



You know?146401:11:04.359 --> 01:11:06.279



Like that, then I don't get hype. But I don't146501:11:06.279 --> 01:11:07.800



want to be at all out of control. I want146601:11:07.800 --> 01:11:11.119



to be locked in and and you know, like music,146701:11:11.119 --> 01:11:13.159



I'm all over the place. Sometimes I want louchdown. That's146801:11:13.159 --> 01:11:15.920



gonna make me go. And then like sometimes I like146901:11:15.960 --> 01:11:17.840



working out in silence. Sometimes I like working out with147001:11:17.880 --> 01:11:20.119



no music at all, and just like being really chill147101:11:20.159 --> 01:11:23.279



about it. I kind of feel like I can, I147201:11:23.279 --> 01:11:25.840



can tap into any and all of those things. But147301:11:25.960 --> 01:11:28.880



for if I was going to deadlift, I was gonna squat,147401:11:29.199 --> 01:11:31.079



If I was gonna bench and I was trying to147501:11:31.119 --> 01:11:34.159



like max out of PR I would not. I would147601:11:34.199 --> 01:11:38.760



I would say pretty pretty tightly focused and not not147701:11:39.800 --> 01:11:42.199



amp up big time or stomp or scream or hit147801:11:42.199 --> 01:11:44.520



myself or whatever, you know, And I, you know, like147901:11:45.119 --> 01:11:46.640



do what you gotta do to get yourself there. I'm148001:11:46.680 --> 01:11:49.640



not no judgment one way or another, but I definitely148101:11:49.640 --> 01:11:51.880



And it's funny as I'm saying that out loud now148201:11:51.880 --> 01:11:53.800



to be honest, as I make my long answer longer.148301:11:55.359 --> 01:11:58.199



I most back when I did more CrossFit and I148401:11:58.199 --> 01:12:00.640



did more Olympic lifts, all of those prs were for148501:12:00.680 --> 01:12:03.640



an audience, not not not on you know, at the148601:12:03.640 --> 01:12:05.640



games or whatever, but just at the gym, Like there's148701:12:05.640 --> 01:12:07.439



people around watching and I'm going to hit a new148801:12:07.720 --> 01:12:11.079



clean and jerk PR and that environment gears me up148901:12:11.119 --> 01:12:13.880



so that I'm like almost subconsciously putting on a show149001:12:13.920 --> 01:12:15.520



for everyone because that helps me get there, you know.149101:12:15.800 --> 01:12:19.039



But now I'm in the gym by myself trying to149201:12:19.560 --> 01:12:21.520



max out a squad, and that's just going to stay149301:12:21.680 --> 01:12:24.439



focused on lockdown and not amped.149401:12:24.239 --> 01:12:28.079



Up for it. I in two thousand and six ish149501:12:28.239 --> 01:12:32.560



started actually late two thousand and five or early two149601:12:32.600 --> 01:12:37.119



thousand and six, started shooting Powerless thing in the gym,149701:12:37.239 --> 01:12:38.920



you know, like anyway, it was a it was kind149801:12:38.960 --> 01:12:41.159



of a team environment of even though it's in your149901:12:41.159 --> 01:12:46.119



individual sport or whatever. And so that's I mean, other150001:12:46.199 --> 01:12:49.239



than the first podcast I did, that's kind of what150101:12:49.439 --> 01:12:51.680



if Cymphony knows me, that's what they know me for.150201:12:52.600 --> 01:12:56.439



And I always felt like every night, that or that150301:12:56.520 --> 01:12:59.359



it was always on night or sometimes sometimes afternoon, sometimes150401:12:59.399 --> 01:13:03.399



mornings whatever, whenever, every session was like an episode. It150501:13:03.439 --> 01:13:05.159



was it was an episode for me because I was150601:13:05.199 --> 01:13:07.920



cutting it together, yeah you know, and it was voiced150701:13:07.960 --> 01:13:10.520



over and whatever, but it was also an episode for them.150801:13:10.600 --> 01:13:14.319



It was a performance among their peers. So it's just150901:13:14.439 --> 01:13:18.800



just exactly what you're saying. And some people approached it151001:13:18.800 --> 01:13:21.399



differently than you know, the other. Some people really needed151101:13:21.439 --> 01:13:25.760



to be hyped up, they needed to get slapped or whatever.151201:13:25.920 --> 01:13:29.039



You know, they had to hit a lot of a151301:13:29.079 --> 01:13:32.199



lot of ammonia, you know, just like smelling sauce all151401:13:32.199 --> 01:13:36.359



that stuff, and and I just seldom was that guy,151501:13:36.800 --> 01:13:39.840



like I didn't care what the music was. And like151601:13:40.199 --> 01:13:43.520



the first power listing meat that I did, like I151701:13:43.720 --> 01:13:47.239



was kind of coaching me, like stuck a ammonia cap151801:13:47.239 --> 01:13:49.359



and under my nose before I went out for my deadlift.151901:13:49.359 --> 01:13:51.399



It's like I couldn't even see where the freaking bar152001:13:51.720 --> 01:13:55.039



was at that point, I let alone pay any attention152101:13:55.079 --> 01:13:56.439



to crowd or anything. It's like, how am I going152201:13:56.479 --> 01:13:58.640



to get this off the floor when I can't see straight?152301:14:00.159 --> 01:14:01.600



Just kind of I don't know. This is not how152401:14:01.640 --> 01:14:06.399



my how my how my mind works, on my my152501:14:06.399 --> 01:14:09.199



my nervous system works. But I get it from other people.152601:14:09.279 --> 01:14:12.279



It's fine. It's just it's just that I just am152701:14:12.319 --> 01:14:14.720



not the guy that that kind of thing works for.152801:14:14.760 --> 01:14:16.640



I guess I don't know that's funny.152901:14:18.000 --> 01:14:21.239



But speaking of enjoying enjoying content, I enjoy what you153001:14:21.319 --> 01:14:24.760



and Tom do together on the on the podcast. It's153101:14:25.600 --> 01:14:29.760



most of the time, I don't think that the I153201:14:29.760 --> 01:14:33.479



don't think that the sexuality component has anything to do153301:14:33.520 --> 01:14:36.000



with it at all, other than him, you know, crushing153401:14:36.039 --> 01:14:40.279



on you after twenty years so and after seeing your153501:14:40.279 --> 01:14:42.840



butt in that episode, like, I get it, I get it.153601:14:43.840 --> 01:14:47.159



Thanks man, I appreciate that full home. Oh, I appreciate it.153701:14:50.880 --> 01:14:52.960



All right, Well, thank you very much. I enjoyed this153801:14:53.159 --> 01:14:54.920



like more than I can actually tell you.153901:14:55.680 --> 01:14:57.520



Well, thanks man, it was really fun. I really appreciate154001:14:57.520 --> 01:14:57.920



you having man.154101:14:58.520 --> 01:15:01.159



Yeah, appreciate it. So where can people find you on.154201:15:01.079 --> 01:15:04.000



The You can find me and my my solo act154301:15:04.039 --> 01:15:07.520



at j Greg Underscore Jonathan on Instagram and also on TikTok,154401:15:07.520 --> 01:15:09.319



but I'm also not any good at that, so it's154501:15:09.359 --> 01:15:12.319



like there, it exists, but Instagram is where I pay154601:15:12.319 --> 01:15:16.920



attention because it's what I understand. And then no homopod154701:15:17.640 --> 01:15:20.960



uh as ours our pod page with Jonathan. It's the154801:15:21.000 --> 01:15:23.279



No Homo Podcast with Jonathan Tom on YouTube and all154901:15:23.319 --> 01:15:26.039



of your favorite podcast platforms, and on Instagram it's No155001:15:26.119 --> 01:15:29.720



Homo Pod. I think I should probably look that up155101:15:29.720 --> 01:15:30.920



before I came on, but I think that's right.155201:15:32.399 --> 01:15:33.920



I can. I can correct that in the show notes.155301:15:33.960 --> 01:15:36.439



I can't like, AI, you're into your mouth or anything,155401:15:36.479 --> 01:15:41.880



but actually somebody well, okay, so five plus years ago,155501:15:42.119 --> 01:15:44.840



my my podcast and business partner and I were approached155601:15:44.840 --> 01:15:50.159



by this company to have clones vocal clones made yes155701:15:50.680 --> 01:15:54.119



to to do ad reads so so they could just155801:15:54.159 --> 01:15:57.560



be programmatically inserted. Yeah, like but it was it was155901:15:57.600 --> 01:15:59.479



going to cost us like ten grand apiece. And now156001:15:59.520 --> 01:16:03.319



people are doing it at home, like you know, yeah, yeah,156101:16:03.319 --> 01:16:06.640



this is crazy. And then another content creator, somebody I156201:16:06.640 --> 01:16:09.239



know that has lost like he lost two hundred pounds156301:16:09.279 --> 01:16:11.039



or something like that, and he's kept it off for156401:16:11.479 --> 01:16:15.159



several years. But he was showing a clip where they156501:16:15.319 --> 01:16:20.279



had changed his voice so that he was speaking Spanish156601:16:20.319 --> 01:16:22.760



and they had actually done the lips as well, and156701:16:22.960 --> 01:16:25.399



somebody just brought this to his attention. Wow, so it's156801:16:25.439 --> 01:16:27.760



like matched his mouth. It's like, this is we were156901:16:27.800 --> 01:16:29.119



living in the weirdest time.157001:16:29.359 --> 01:16:32.119



Yeah, for sure, it's a crazy time. For sure. That's nuts.157101:16:32.520 --> 01:16:34.239



All right. I am at the Jim mcdehon all the157201:16:34.279 --> 01:16:36.439



social media. The show is fifty percent facts. Percent is157301:16:36.439 --> 01:16:38.800



a word in fifty. It's just numbers, fifty percent facts.157401:16:38.840 --> 01:16:41.239



It's a speaker Prime podcast association with I Heeart Media157501:16:41.279 --> 01:16:44.159



on the Obscure Celebrity Network And I'll talk to you157601:16:44.199 --> 01:16:44.600



next week.157701:16:45.039 --> 01:17:12.760



Thanks again, Jonathan, Yeah, thanks so much. Man,