Scrooged! (1988)| 50% Facts Holiday Special Review | Guest cohost Josh Hajar

0:10 Are in boys all right? For Christmas? For our short holiday film Festival, we got Scrooged. Yes, we got a scrooge who Josh's share with me and this is his favorite Christmas movie. This has been a staple of Christmas for me since I was a kid. I was going to say, so, how old were you when you first saw this movie? I think it as most I don't know if I count as a younger millennial or an older millennial at forty three years old, but as most millennials happen, we end up seeing a lot of movies that are inappropriate for us at a very young age. And I want to say I started seeing this movie when it was on syndication, when I was in my early adolescents, like ten or eleven years old, Okay, and that's when I first started watching it, because it was just whatever was on T and T U TBS at the time.

1:03 Yeah. By contrast, in nineteen eighty eight, I had a two year old, so a little different. Yeah, and Sebastian wasn't even it wasn't even conceived, coved. Maybe his parents hadn't even met yet. Yeah, probably probably. Yeah, did you watch this one along with the beast. Did you catch it? I'm like twenty eight minutes away from finishing it. Okay, yeah, so most of it? So most of it? Yeah, Okay, what can I say about this movie that hasn't already been said about Afghanistan?

1:48 I love that line. I always have Excuse me, hopefully I'm not going to go on a coughing jack here and just make the whole thing. Like you know, there are shows like people people reading to make you go to sleep or whatever I gotta do. I could do a whole episode of podcasts or just coughing all the way through it to keep people awake. Be a direction run, it, wouldn't it. I wonder what that you know, the engagement would be. I would probably be really high, very high sleep ones. Yeah. The sleep ones do pretty well. Yeah, I know the sleep ones, the a SMR ones, which I'm like gets on my very last last nerve or if I cannot do ASMR whatsoever, so that those do really well on YouTube. So so if you ever want to pivot, maybe there's coughing as MR. Yeah.

2:33 Probably So. The episode did a couple of weeks ago with Paul O' need. He's got like a perfect ASMR voice. Yeah, like he could do the whisper, he could do all of that if necessary. He's just got a great, just really even toned voice, not not not monotone, but very even toned, really warm quality to his voice. It's like Jesus Christ, dude. When we were done, I was like, what the fuck is up with with this voice? I mean, your your voice is very. When I get to not shout, yes, and when I get to just relax, yes, yes, this is my voice. Yeah, like read a book. Yeah, when I'm when I'm out there in Third Street and the music's blaring and I'm trying to have conversation with everybody, was shouting, some of my voice changes. But when I can relax, this is my voice.

3:22 Yeah. You know, sometimes vocal changes happen when people are speaking other languages too, Like I I swear to God that almost everybody who who speaks English and Spanish their Spanish is up a register. I mean yeah, like yeah, higher pitch. Yeah yeah, why is that? Don't know? But but you know what I'm say, I've noticed it with myself. Yeah, no i am, I've noticed it with everyone that I've ever dealt with who who was bilingual English Spanish. Yeah, so uh Screw, which was released in nineteen eighty eight. It is a take on Charles Dickens a Christmas Carol. It is maybe further afield than any other version of this story.

4:14 Yeah, which is what I've always appreciated about it, And now that you talk about it being released in nineteen eighty eight, I was six years old in nineteen eighty eight, and I think I started seeing this movie when it was on VHS, so probably around nineteen eighty nine, nineteen ninety, yeah, so maybe I was younger. It maybe pre Blockbuster, I don't know what time was. Yeah, but my dad worked for Pitney Bows for a long time, which was a fortune five hundred company, and one of the fringe benefits that they had was they had a video rental. Service in his. Company, so that they could go down to like this little store and rent the most recent videos. So I saw a lot of movies that way as I was a kid. So that's also probably why I really love this movie, because there was a dad didn't have to pay for us well, because there was a point in time where my family would just gather around and watch what my dad rented on our tiny little twenty inch screens.

5:11 You know, it was tiny TV. We didn't grow up with a lot of money in my household, and we would just gather around this twenty inch TV from various distances. So I'm sure some people in the back couldn't really sit and me and my brother of course would be sitting like upfront, you know, too close to the screen, and we would just watch movies. And this was one of the ones I have memories of my family doing. This movie came out a couple of years before it came out after the original Ghostbusters and a few years before Groundhog Day. Yes, Groundhog Day and this movie have some similarities. Yeah, they do. And Bill Murray was trying to get away from being just a comedic relief and I think this was his very first role that he really tried to really dabble.

5:54 In that there was a movie that he did. It was a remake that was a straight drama that didn't not do well. I can't remember the name of it. I can probably find it if i'd stand by for a moment I look this up. It was. Also I do have to say that Ghostbusters Frozen Empire was not as good as the Ghostbusters before that one. I didn't see Frozen Empire. So the one before that, which was fine. That one was really good. Ghostbusters Afterlife, it was fine. It had an interesting cast.

6:34 They brought in you know, a Stranger Things guy, yeah, and Paul Rudd and Paul Rudd and the Never Ages. Yeah, and Frozen Empire. I think they just kind of really missed the landing on it. It was Garfield, Garfield, Yeah, that was yeah. Have you he was in Charlie's Angels That didn't make any sense. Charlie's Angel He's. Clearly in some roles that were just for the money. That's a really good one. Kmpaign's a crazy movie. It is. It is insane. So Groundhog Day was nineteen ninety three quick Change if either if you've never seen quick Change, it's the same story as the Denzel Washington movie Inside Man. It's exactly the same story, just one is a comedy and one is a drama. Oh okay, it's definitely. That's a good double feature for you know, figuring it out. Little Shop of Horrors he was I remember that Ghostbuster Razors Edge, Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, And you can see that that The IMDb reviewers have not been kind to that one's a six point four yeah, and not that he can't do drama, it's just that it's really hard with somebody who's that locked into comedy.

7:56 Yeah, and he's got perfect comedic timing, you know. It's especially in the first Ghostbusters movie, he really brings the perfect comedic timing to what he's doing. And I feel like in this one too, he has pretty good comedic timing. He's the one who keeps it funny and going. My one of my favorite lines to repeat with really both of my sons from Ghostbusters is okay, so she's a dog, And it usually follows anytime someone says the word okay, yeah, then the completion is, so she's a dog.

8:38 Yeah. My I'd say my favorite is from Ghostbusters too, which is not everybody's favorite movie, but it's they go to the mayor of New York and they're talking about how like the sludge is growing and he's got to tell New Yorkers to stop being so unhappy and so miserable. And the mayor says, it's every New York's god given right to be miserable and I'm not going to take that away from And that's just like perfectly sums up when you go into New York City in the winter and you're walking and you know you're on the streets, nobody looks happy. It's no, it's cold. Everybody's got a walk or take the subway to work or the bus. I will be there in early January for using my balls. So that's that's definitely one of my favorite lines. Yeah, but my favorite, one of my favorite lines about the Mayor is in the first movie is uh, yes, it's true.

9:24 This man has no dick. Yes, it's true. That's Bill Murray. That's his that's his perfect commedic time. Well, I was just reading in the trivia that a great deal of his lines in this movie ore ad. Lib which which is surprising because I think Richard Donner, he directed this, and he's not exactly cyber director to allow. That he's not and he and he said Bill Murray says he was told to do that, and Richard Donner says that it was almost impossible to control Bill Murray. I imagine it would. So I was probably the truth is probably somewhere in between. But like the kind of the most famous person for that would be Robin Williams and he made, you know, a great dramatic movie of Dead Poets Society in which a lot of what he said was ad lite, but they were able to like corral him enough to get like the you know, the heart forward and supposed to as opposed to just being comedic all the time.

10:19 Yeah. And I think in this one, Bill Murray does a really good job, especially in the beginning of the movie, of showing how much of like a absolute ass he could be as the you know, the executive in the television station was at IBC they were calling the International Broadcasting Company. And again that I love the the beginning of the movie where he shows the the Christmas special that he's working on. Yeah, and it's like so intense and violent and u and then they're like, oh, grandmother collapsed and died from this preview from a heart attack. He's like, you can't buy you know, carry publicity, like bi publicity. You like that. Yeah. So I think he just really just plays a great message of like the uncaring executive here. And it's it's funny because it kind of feels like whereas in the late eighties where we had so much of that, like that's when the first wave of like very serious corporate America and stocks and bonds and you gotta make money and all these things.

11:21 Was Wall Street, Wall Street, Yeah, and gret is good, Greed is good. And they made a movie called Wall Street. You remember, Yes, And instead of watching the movie and being like, wow, these guys are complete dickheads and you know, like this this uh, they a lot of young men at the time watch that movie were like that, that's exactly what I want to be like. And the end result of that is also Wolf of wall Street. And the end result of that as Wolf of wall Street. And again, people saw Wolf of wall Street when it came out in the early twenty ten, they didn't get it, and they said that that's the guy I want to be like. And the movie is about a guy who loses like his entire like goodwill and life and happiness because he's just chasing money all the time, yeah, and doing a bunch of drugs. But there's never it never fails that these things go in circles where they're like, I want to watch this movie and that's what I want to be like.

12:10 Yeah, almost like like Stephen Colbert and the Colbert Rapport, where everybody thought that he was not everybody, but a lot of people thought he was actually conservative, which he is not. It was a parody on very right wing people. Yes, he was being satirical, Yes, just not getting it. And part of me wonders too, And that's what I was wondering when I was watching this. We have politicized the idea that you are allowed to act like Frank Cross, like if you have the right as an executive or as a corporate person to act like Frank Cross. And anybody who tries to take that right away from you is on the opposite end of the political spectrum and they are bad.

12:54 Well. And you know furthermore that you have to or that you have to yet to be successful, you have to be an asshole, have to be an asshole. Which so I wonder if they would even make this movie in today's day and age, because the message of kindness, goodwill towards men, God bless us everybody, all that kind of things is so is shown as politically polarizing. Yeah, so would they make this with being afraid that a very large segment of the population wouldn't watch it and wouldn't appreciate the message. Well, I have to say that that There hasn't been any rumor that I have heard about of them remaking it, so.

13:34 I hope not. I think honestly, one of the best versions is The Muppet Christmas Carol. Yeah, which is another one of my Christmas movies. That's an awesome that and a Christmas story. But this one became my favorite just as a kid because I just started really watching it in syndication over and over and over again. It was always on every Christmas. And then as I got older, I started really understanding the message. I was like, oh, this is the message here about. One of my favorite Christmas movies is not as a movie that was not very popular but actually had more or had some Actually this has This movie has a bunch of SNL people, people who were currently on previously on On in the future on SNL. That it had both Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi. Is nineteen forty one.

14:22 I don't know if I've seen that one, Okay, seeing a lot of people haven't. Steven Spielberg directed it and it's about the West Coast getting attacked by the Japanese in World War Two in nineteen forty one. Yeah, and you know post post Pearl Harbor, and some of it was some of it was possibly true, and some of it is entirely made up. But it's just this crazy, crazy, crazy movie. And for whatever reason, I love it the way you love this movie. I love that movie. I don't know why.

15:03 Yeah, it's just it's you. You get these movies, they bring you memory. I yeah, there's nostalgia pieces to them, and and that's what this movie pretty much is essentially to me. There's a scene that I always think about in nineteen forty one where Dan Aykroyd is in a tank on a street in downtown LA and I think he's gotten knocked in the head, and so it didn't knock him out, it just made him loopy. And he takes a woman's like silk stocking and pulls it over his head with two oranges in it, and so the oranges or eyes and he says, I'm a bug, which has always just cracked me up for some stupid reason. It's just it's one of those movies that doesn't really make a lot of sense. Yea, And it has, you know that it has that family vibe that that you makes you think a little bit of Christmas story. But it also has some just bizarre ass special effects. And and and John Belushi being the most unhinged fighter pilot ever.

16:15 Yeah ever, yeah, and and and I think this was something I noticed in this movie too, is that in HD it looks pretty bad. It looks effects the scene where his the scene where his former boss comes back from the dead and he's like, you know this decaying Yeah, yeah, whatever zombie thing. Yes, and he holds him outside of the window and then his arm starts to fall apart. You can just it looks it looks like rubber. It looks like foam rubber. Yeah, it looks like foam rubber. Yeah, it's pretty pretty bad, Which is crazy because this movie was directed by Richard Donnerd who directed There's Christopher of Superman, Yeah, which had really good special effects. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was great. But I mean, I guess you don't really control the budget of of these things, you know, like what you what money you're given. Your only control what you can pay for with that budget.

17:04 Yeah. And I guess too, you know, did they really want to invest a bunch of money into a movie that was just retelling the story of Scrooge in a different way? And do they really want to spend a bunch of special effects money on what's going to be, you know, essentially a seasonal movie that they're going to show during the Christmas season, and that's going to be well. I mean, you hope with making a holiday film, especially back then, is that it gets it becomes part of the part of the zeitgeist for holidays. Oh yeah, that it becomes a classic. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if there's anybody else out there who feels this way about the movie that I do, but I do know that it was something that along with you know, like die Hard along we talked about that, along with the Muppet Christmas Carol, along with the Christmas Story that just replayed on Christmas, even Christmas Day, when the networks pretty much we're like, okay, our staff is going home for the holiday and now we just we're just going to it's just going to run the movies over and over and over again. And this was one of the ones that they did that with.

18:05 I can't really remember any other ones that I would sit down and it would be on the TV when I was finally done opening My. Presence, the very classic English one that everybody Loves to Hate and I'm and Hates to Love. I can't remember the name of it at the moment. Was it something that came out in the eighties or nineties, nineties? I'm not sure. It'll come to me. Was it that there was like a romantic one, Yeah, yeah, I can't remember the name. Of Yeah, what's his name? Snape, isn't it? And and Emma Thompson and I haven't. Seen that movie in forever though, it's been such a long time. Jesus Christ, it'll come to me.

18:46 And now they have so many Hallmark movies. Yeah, follows and it's the same movie with different people. With different people that it's like, you won't get that cross section that we had in the late eighties, early or even I would say this was being shown and repeatedly on TBS in the early time. Oh yeah, I'm sure it was the you know, like a formulas for success in anything. This is the sort of take notes or whatever this is in The Secret is a Thing and a thing. Yeah, And this is like classic literature and comedy smash together. Yeah, which is screwball comedy, which is what makes it, I think, which is what makes me appreciate it. And then there's this, there is some drama with his relationship.

19:27 There is some drama with him, you know, initially learning his lesson a little bit, but then not along the way, and then you know, he gives it a speech at the end. Yeah, this this cast speaking of the of his girlfriend. The cast is crazy. And I had forgotten the whole bit where you see the beginnings of their relationship and all that stuff. I'd forgotten about that that period. It's like, what the fuck happened to him? Karen Allen, who who played Marion in the Raiders of the Lost Arc is his girlfriend. H John Forsyth, who was a soap opera star, and I think he was like a critical part of Doubt. No, it wasn't. It was Falcon Crest, maybe the spinoff of Dallas.

20:12 In the eighties. John Glover played Lex Luthor's dad in Smallville Bobcat gulf Waite. It plays the most fucked up character by by by the by the plot. He is just fucked by the plot the whole time, looking incredibly young and not really even not in Bobcat mode at all. No, like he's more like this now than than he was when in his heyday and he's he's a director now more than anything else. David Johansson, who was like a Saturday Night Live musical staple. Carol Kine, who is currently in Star Trek's Strange New Worlds. But the voice that she does in this is so spot on to Simca from Taxi he played she played Andy Kaufman's girlfriend. Oh that's right, Yeah, it's spot on to that. Robert Mitcham, who was like one of the one of the best known actors of the fifties and sixties. Alfrey Woodard speaking of Star Trek, Yeah, First Contact. She was like one of the major characters in First Contact. Jamie Farr from Mash, Robert Gouley from Being Robert Goulay, Buddy Hackett, one of the like vaudeville comedians that survived into the into the television and movie era. Yeah, that just you know, this is kind of a restraint performance for him. He was

21:44 always just crazy. It is. And then Lee Majors, who is in the beginning of the movie as the you know, the protagonist for the very violent Christmas film that Bill Murray wants to make. And John Houseman, right before he died. John Houseman was he was like a classically trained actor and stuff, and he was I think he either won an Oscar, was nominated for an Oscar for a movie called Paper Tiger. Yeah, oh no, wait, paper Chase, Paper Chase, which was about about law school. Okay, and I think they for a while made a series out of it. And remember he was in the series or not. But like this was kind of his his swan song. But just like a giant you know, movie movie kind of cast. And it used to the fifties and sixties they made it, and some wear into the seventies, like Towering Inferno and Beside An Invention and all this stuff had this kind of cast where it's like cross section of eras and media and whatever.

22:43 Yeah. Yeah, and it was it was cast based on what they felt was best for the role. It wasn't you know, the heavily heavily heavily negotiated and debated, and you know, the film executive, the distribution company exactecutives having to approve everything, the production company executives having to approve anything. Just the it felt like like back then the creatives got to cast who they wanted to cast based on who they felt most fit the role and not who they felt would draw more audiences in and that this demographic would like this person in this demographic doesn't like this person, so we have to capture this demographic. It also feels like for a long time film was suffering from that where they wouldn't cast certain actors because they were afraid of which demographic wouldn't come to the movie for it. And when I was a kid, it felt like they just made film based on what a director's vision was. They cast the actors they wanted to cast, and then they made it. And that's how we got some of our biggest smash hits that were labors of passion projects. Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, all these movies that made a bunch of money and you could look at now especially. I've heard that they study Back to the Future in film school. Is like one of the.

24:00 Back to the Future is considered. Perfect film because of the plot, the characters, the pacing and the way it's shot, all those things. Yeah, so I don't feel like we get those anymore because there's too many hands trying to tell the creatives what to do. That. Yeah, I think that's true that, you know, the only the autre driven stuff, you know, guys who have almost complete control over what they're making. Yeah, which I feel like is only happening in the horror genre right now. Maybe true. I don't know. I'm not a horror film guy, so I don't really even know what's going on there. I'm not a big horror film guy either, but I see a lot of advertisements for horror films where a lot of unknown actors are in them and they live really well produced. Yeah, I think it's a it's maybe a little bit of a coupe to get an actor that well. Actually, Ethan Hawk is in that one right now, and he's he's on fire at the moment and has been a I mean, he's been a Hollywood staple for a really long time too. In those God he was in I think he was in that Poet Society. I think that was maybe, Yeah, he was. So what was the production issues then, Well, there were a lot of different versions of the script. There were a lot of different there.

25:20 There was Uh, let's see if I can find the note in here. This was Bill Murray's first starring wrote role since the first Ghostbusters. He's been living in Paris and seriously considered giving up acting altogether. I Gotta go. Sam Kinnison was originally supposed to play the ghost of Christmas Past and ended up going to Javid Johansson because he was friends with Bill Murray. I'm gonna find the Okay, Well, this is part of the production stuff. So according to Bill Murray, a lot of footage ended up on the cutting room floor. We shot a big, sloppy, long, sloppy movie, so there's a great deal of material that didn't even end up in the film. It just didn't work. You tend to forget what was wrong. It's hard. I just figured that anyone who's good could step into this part and have a lot of fun with it. It's sort of a wicked character. The idea of making a funny Scrooge was an inspired touch. That's what was appealing to me about it.

26:20 And I think this was the first funny Scrooge, like a Muppet Christmas Carol was is funny. It's funny, but it's touch at the same time. Yes, it was based on the original Scrooge story. Yeah, much more closely than this, and Lane May did an uncredited rewrite in one night. According to Bill Murray, Lane May like one of the most famous comedy writers of the fifties and sixties, Okay, that they just I don't know, it was kind of it was just kind of an all over the place production didn't have like an even tone at all. And Bill Murray kept saying that, or said that Richard Donner kept telling him to just be louder. So it's like he's shouting half the movie.

27:10 Have you noticed that He's like, I think he was deaf, Like I think he could literally couldn't hear me, So I he had me shouting and as I was shouting. Yeah, there are a lot of scenes where he's in it and he's seeming to have a really emotional moment and he's just shouting. I have to say that, like the scenes with Karen Allen are the best in the film altogether. They have a really good chemistry. Yeah, it's really believable when they're showing that early version of their relationship and how they meet and then how they progress and then you know, the ghost of future Past shows them how they fall apart. Yeah, or the ghost of Christmas Path sorry Christ Christmas. Yeah, And I don't know. She was outstanding in Rangers of the Last Ark. I don't know why honestly that she didn't have a bigger career than she did because that was a that was a really defining role. And then they just didn't have her back until there's a mosquito trying to get to your neck right now, right, Yeah, I don't know how we have mosquitos in here all the cold, in the middle of winter. It's warm in here.

28:11 It's it's still, it's still right there, you see it. It's just it's big enough to be on Mike. So I was I gonna say, yeah, No, I really thought that there would be more for her, and they did not bring her back until the The Crystal Skull one, which was a awful film. Oh my god, it was so bad, like and again Spielberg like, figure it out. I don't know. Yeah, I think we all knew though. I think we all suspected that any Indiana Jones past the first three movies wasn't going to be good. And then I didn't like the second one very much.

28:51 But the first and the third great. The first and the third are great. Yeah. Did they release another one after the Crystal Skull? I have, Yeah, I watched that one. It's not as bad as Crystal Skull. But it's not it's not fifty percent as good as the other ones. Yeah, it's it's I mean even Temple of Doom is better than that. Yeah. Yeah, And it's they they really have to get this thing off where they just trying to revive old franchises over and over and over again, trying to beat a dead horse. Let some newbies come in and make new franchises that are really popular. It's okay. That's what concerns me about, like rebooting like James Bond. Yeah, it's like, I think we might be done.

29:34 I think telling James Bond stories. But the thing that is good about James Bond is that most of his stories are vignettes. So you can tell a completely encapsulated story in one movie and it doesn't have to follow any of the last movies. It's just another adventure. It's just another. Adventure, right, And they can just can they can cast to it they want. For James Bond, if they get a good director and good scriptwriters and good production team, they can tell a whole story in one movie. But with these other movies, especially what's been happening with Indiana Jones and Star Wars, and we were just talking about the Ghostbusters remakes. They do have to follow a certain you know, idea for each movie. Yeah, they can't just start from scratch.

30:16 I was listening to a conversation with Ryan Johnson, who they just released on Netflix the third of the of the Knives Out movies. But he was talking about how because he directed everybody's least favorite of the Star Wars movie sequel, Yeah, and you know it has it has a brilliance to it. And I hated it the first time I saw it. I hated the second time I saw The third time I saw it was like, oh, I get the internal logic of this. Now, I understand what he was trying to say. I don't agree with it, but I do understand what he was trying to say. But when you when you are working on an established I P proper, do you like that people want to see the same contours that they're used to. They don't want to see something different. And he wanted to do something different. Yes, and it's definitely different. Yeah.

31:12 Yeah. People just want it to remind them of the movie that they watched originally that made them feel so good. Yeah. Yeah. And so when you end up doing these remakes, you can't go too far left field. But if you don't go far enough left field, people say, well, it's just the same movie all over again. Yeah. Yeah, so it's really hard. So that's why Again, that's why I don't agree with remaking things that are so classic, or giving another sequel to a franchise. I think there's been so many sequels now to the Predator franchise that were just like on like maybe twelve or thirteen Predators. Have you seen the last two I saw, which was the last one I saw. No, I saw Prey that was pretty good.

31:55 I heard that Prey was quite good, and apparently if you like put it in the Navajomo, it's a different it's a different there, different takes than the original, and it's actually you just have to read the subtitles, but it's actually better. Yeah, I think it was. I don't know, some a native language. Don't cancel me. I'll have to try that. And then I wanted to see the most recent one. But then there was Predators that which was pretty good. Yeah, And then there was the one after that, which was like Predator twenty eighteen, where it was something similar but something different, and it was just terrible and then you know, there was I want to say there's seven Terminator movies now.

32:35 Terminator two is one of my favorite movies. Of all time. Terminator two is one of the best movies of all times, best action movies of all times. And then there's been I think three to five movies since then, and it's every one is almost worse than the last. Terminator. Three. Three is terrible Terminator with Christian Bale just as bad Salvation, yes, four, five is Terminator Genesis, I think Genesis, and then six would be the most recent one. Dark Fate. Yeah, so there's four movies since Terminator too. I was okay with Dark Fate the first time I saw it, I watched it in a couple months ago. I was like, this is just painful. It's just like it's the pacing is really off. The first twenty minutes is a just a thrill ride, and then after that it slows down. It slows down, and it's punctuated by these like incredibly violent scenes, but it's not I don't know.

33:32 And then they try they tried too hard to play with you know, time and all these other things. So it's it's just time to put it down, let it die. I think, you know, I think it's fun to do to be able to like revisit scenes from a particular movie in the past and see how and Genesis did a lot of that. Yeah, there was like an absolute recreation of one of the scenes from Terminator in Genesis and Back to the Future two where you see the opposite side of the same scenes. Yeah, thought that was pretty cool. That was really cool. I think you have just to think of Back to the Future one and two as being kind of one movie and then the third one with the fun. Yeah.

34:15 The third one was not well liked at all. No. I remember as a kid waiting for the second movie so eagerly. We saw the first one in theaters, we were going to see the second one in theaters, and we were so excited to see the second one in the flying cars and yeah, yeah, and that, but that was I think that was planned as a see as like a two movie, and then the first movie and the second movie made so much money, they were like, let's make a third. No, actually, the second movie and the third movie were filmed at the same time. Oh they were, Yeah, they were. It was a conjoined production. Oh I didn't know that. Yeah, ok, yeah, the the third one was just not just not very good. In the end, they kind of run out of ideas. The weirdest thing though, was that Marty's the actress that played Marty's mother played his father's great grandmother because they wanted her in the movie. But there's no logic to that at all, because she looked the same. She looked just the same.

35:21 They kept them all looking the same. Yes, yeah, it was not you know, that's a that was a really interesting production. I think we've talked about it a little bit. But back to the future in terms of like learning a life lesson, Groundhog Day is a far, far superior to this, Oh definitely. Yeah. Yeah, But I think it's like the gist of both movies that he made, and I think this was kind of like the beginning of trying to give that message, which was the real true path of life is service to others. Yeah. Yeah, And so in this movie, he's like a very extreme version of his character in Groundhog Day, who's very like uncaring and arrogant, but he's like just a weatherman from a local this new station. This movie, he's a very wealthy executive.

36:15 This movie is the reason why I was nervous to see groundhog Day, Yeah, because I was afraid it was going to be the same kind of kind of frenetic like goofy whatever, And it's not. It's just highly polished. It's it's another one of those like perfect films. Yes, the Groundhog Day is definitely one of those perfect films. And the crazy thing about it is that it's it's still very loved by most people to this day, whereas Scrooged is just you know, it's this Christmas phenomenon that they have a lot of people love. But most people I know really adore groundhog Day. And it ended Harold Gramis and Bill and Murray's friendship. Yeah, they had been friends for years. They had worked on many projects together.

36:56 And because Bill Murray wanted groundhog Day to be very serious and not comedic, almost very little comedy, to not comedic at all, and Harold Raymonds was saying, no, we can do a good mix and people like this movie, they pretty much disagreed and didn't speak for decades because. Of it, which then is the possibility that although he's very cool and shows up at bars and bios people drinks and all that stuff, to this day, Bill Murray might be a little difficult to work with. It might be a little difficult. Maybe it's just a little bit difficult to work with. Actually, I've heard plenty of those stories. See best you have impressions on this one. I like it? You like it? Yeah, I like it. Literally when I was I didn't see what year came out.

37:37 I just knew it was older. And when I was like listening to the music, I was like, oh, this is this is eighties in the. Eighties, that's true. And then I was like watching it, I was like, I like how it looks like the way, kind of like the way it was shot. I like the comedy in there. I think it was the ghost of the Present. Her scenes really good, like how she was kind of treating him like that part. I think overall it's a pretty solid movie. I need to finish it. So so Carol Kane, the actress who played Goes to Christmas Present, there's a scene in which she grabs Bill Murray's lip. She grabbed it so hard that they couldn't film for a few days.

38:20 She tore like the skin of his lips. Oh no, yeah, yeah, not good, not good, not good. And she was super uncomfortable having to be so physical with him. According to Trivia, Yeah and I get that. Yeah, doesn't seem like they had it's done, Coordinator. It kind of seems like they did. Yeah, maybe they did, but I didn't kind of look that up, but damn. Yeah. This is one of those movies too that doesn't necessarily go subtle with its message. No it's or anything at all. It does kind of beat you over the head with you know, this is the message here. And he's just such a old, uncaring person and you know he's so he's so cruel, and he after he sees the ghost of Christmas Present, he ends up going back to visit with his girlfriend at the homeless shelter, and then you could see he's learned absolutely nothing at all, and he shouts at her about how you know, these people could take care of the turkeys. Just come with me and we'll be okay, we'll be happy, you know, hire better people, and she's like they're all volunteers.

39:25 Right, right. So it's and that's another scene where he's like that the screaming things make sense. He's like where Richard Donner was telling me to be louder. Because he ends up screaming. Her before he walks off, which is weird. Yeah, which is really weird. Especially like it really doesn't align with his intent, no at all. His intent was to go back and rekindle things. Yeah, and then he just ends up with screaming, cruel person. He just ends up still being an ass. Like it is interesting that she she responds to the the the voicemail that he leaves after he's visited by his former business partner, his his Jacob Marley whose name wasn't Jacob Marley in this his panicked message to her that like, even though they split up the way you saw them splitting up, where he's just not interested in in in following through on commitments that he made for her.

40:24 He was more interested in you know, I don't know. I mean, like that'd be a tough choice anyway, though, honestly, I mean they didn't make it easy at all, because it was essentially between going out with friends for around around Christmas or a holiday thing or actually was Christmas eve, Christmas Eve, or going off with the head of the network and his girlfriend and to Palm Springs or wherever they were going. Yeah, the park. It was the head of the network's mistress. It wasn't just his girl, Yes, it was his mistress. His wife was busy. His wife was busy, so he was taking his mistress, which is, you know, pretty sketch when it really comes right down to it, I guess. But yeah, I mean, but but like when when you know that something will advance your career, it is difficult to even if it's a little sketchy.

41:23 Yeah, yeah, but I think that's that's another part of it. That's like where they're clobbering you over the head with. A message, Yeah, that would go out. You could go out with your friends for Christmas, or you could go out with this you're gonna make money. But this guy has no morals or ethics. He's leaving town with his mistress. It could it could have been a little bit more clear cut in terms of like what kind of a decision that you would make if you were career minded but also concerned, what kind of there was no like middle ground I guess for him, And you know, I mean, shit happens. So sometimes people have to go do a work thing and and you just don't show up. But are you you know, give your regrets or whatever. But that's not what happened there, and she's like, I think we need to split up for a while. I think we need space, all right, And apparently that's stuck.

42:17 But I will say I really enjoyed the the sub story of his assistant and her family. Yeah, and that was that was a really good that seems like it was coming from a different movie and could have been a different movie. Yeah, it did it. That could have been a movie on its own. The whole that whole plot, Yeah, the whole thing could have been when they decorate the the get up Christmas tree, yeah, because they can't afford a Christmas tree. Yeah, And she's showing him this, she's showing him and then she says, what does she say to him? Grossive Christmas present? Says she was like, oh she did you? Did you know her husband died? She wore black for a year And he's like, oh no, I just think that was the color that was in fashion at the time.

43:00 Yeah, that was a fashion choice, fashion choice. Yeah. So it's just that that whole part of it was one of my favorite parts of it. And then she started pressing them for to give her a raise. Yeah, to give her a raise to make more money. So she could afford a tree. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that sticks pretty close to the original, the original screws. Yeah yeah, which is it's again, it's funny because we see in our culture right now, everybody is so insistent on you can only say Merry Christmas. If you say happy Holidays, then you're it's some of how a problem. There's a war on Christmas. There's a war on Christmas, right But then we also have had for centuries because how old is the Scrooge story, the original screw story, to say, so for centuries or over a century now, we've had this story about Christmas and the spirit of Christmas, and we've had it in films, and we've had it repeated to us that the spirit of Christmas is giving and caring and goodwill towards men. But then that message is also controversial, having empathy for your fellow human being, it's controversial. So you're supposed to just say Merry Christmas.

44:08 But there's no spirit of Christmas in that Merry Christmas. The people who insist on saying Merry Christmas. So I actually thought about also doing It's a wonderful life, but I will save that for another year's thing. It is not an upbeat movie. That is a dark, dark film. I've actually never seen it. You've never seen it is a dark film. It is. It's supposed to be a Christmas movie. That's probably my favorite Christmas movie honestly. But it's very much about the war between between between capitalism and socialism. Oh, that's right at its core, at its core, that's what it's about.

44:48 That's what it's about. Yes, and especially because from what I understand, you know, by the end of the movie, it's like everybody helps the person who's. Down on his luck the most because he's helped them, because he's helped them. Yes. Yeah, So again it's it's all these well loved Christmas stories with the message of Christmas being helping people, but somehow helping people has become controversial. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a thing about I didn't realize until I watched it again and looked at the trivia, but that Jimmy Stewart. It was the first movie that he made after being a bomber pilot in World War Two. Oh, I didn't know that's what he had done. And what you're watching in real time is him processing his PTSD from knowing that he killed people by dropping bombs on them.

45:38 Wow, that's right. I'll have to give this a watch. I've heard it's one of the best Christmas movies. It is so when you see his emotional scenes realize that he's not so much acting as he is as he is having a Catharsis, it's like, yeah, I didn't I mean watching it with this time watching it and knowing that going in, it's like, oh man, this movie is really sad. I wonder if there was anything like that and scrooged, because at this point Bill Murray was at the height of his career. Right. Ghostbuster was a huge movie. He was its most he wasn't its most notable star, but people remembered his lines from the movie the most. And so I think that's where he got a lot of his arrogance to begin with. So I wonder if when he was acting this movie out as the arrogant executive, if any of it registered in his mind of his behaviors as it difficult to work with actor.

46:32 Maybe so, actually, I need to look up when he did when Stripes came out. Oh, that was another one I saw as a very young kid. Bill Murray was was really he was he was huge. Saturday Night Live did Wonders for him. Yeah, and then it was Ghostbusters and Stripes were not back to back. But I do want to say though, he I hope you give some credit to John Candy because John Candy was a big part of his career as well, you know, and John Candy was a huge. Actor back then. Yeah, yeah, he was thermography just search don't make it go eighty one. Yeah, so Stripes was before Ghostbusters.

47:26 Yeah, it was. Stripes was great, It was great, but it was like two movies. It was two movies, the same way that Full Metal Jacket is two movies. It was two movies. But John Candy carries a lot of that movie. Yeah, yeah, he is. His comedic timing and his acting just natural talents were just full on. Yeah yeah, that and trains, plants and automobiles. Yes. Yeah. It was almost guaranteed that if you released a movie with John Candy in it at that point in time, in that streak, that it was going to be a comedy hit, and it was going to be because of him. And there was one what was the one he did with mccaullay Culkin, Oh, I can't remember, Uncle Buck.

48:10 Uncle Buck yes, uncle Buck. And that one actually was supposed to be like more of like a family oriented comedy film because you know, McCauley Culkin's in it, and this is after Home Alone. And actually I watched it again as an adult and it's still pretty funny, is it. Yeah? Back then they made it and I didn't think it was that funny as a teenager, but you know it's still it's a pretty funny movie. Wow. Yeah, all right, Well it's time to do that rating thing, and I think maybe we'll rate this one on obviously foam ghost hands. Wow. So for me, because the nostalgia factor and just I think when when the the the young boy at the end says God bless us everyone. Yes, that's a moment that just that'll get the that'll get me emotionally.

49:04 Every year I've watched this movie almost every year since I started saying it was my favorite movie. And every year he says God bless es everyone, and I get emotional. So I want to give it a four. Okay, says I was gonna say a three five, three five, and you finish it. Maybe if I finish it, you'll get you'll get all the way to four. I I have to go lower. I'm sorry, it's okay. This is this is about a two and a half movie for me. It's just it is. It could have been really great and it's kind of a mess. And I think that that that's unfortunate. Yeah. I mean even even like the you know, with the quality of the TV sets and all that kind of stuff, you know, that was that was all fine. It just it came together just really oddly. And the and it's really part of it is the shouting thing. It's like this character like when when if you're if you're playing a character that has high emotion, you kind of have to start low and then you work up to it and then you back down and you work up to it again, and you will higher and back down. And you know, normally the dynamism of the of of a of a character like this is fluid, and this is all just up here, yes, And it actually sort of comes down toward the end and then pops back up at the very end when he's again shouting, and it looks like

50:34 a telethon, you. Know, it looks like a telethon shouting about the Christmas message. Yes, yes, And he's speaking directly to the audience that. That looks like, what's his name who did the telephon for years and years and years? Oh my god, I'm uh Jerry Lewis, Jerry Lewis. Yeah, it kind of had a Jerry Lewis quality to it, Yeah, except he wasn't singing, except that Bill Murray can sing sort of, so yes. Yeah, and he breaks and because he's supposed to be speaking to the television, like because he interrupts the live broadcast, right, he breaks the fourth wall way breaks fourth wall, Yeah, which I can understand as a movie that where you're supposed to suspend your disbelief with the Scrooge message and some of the terrible cgi and practical effects that that can really pull you out of the suspension of disbelief.

51:29 And Bob cap Gulthwaite has to go into the control room with a shotgun to keep them from cutting him off because he's been promised a c sweet job Yeah yeah, or something, or at least a VP job. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. I get it. It's sometimes it's not the easiest thing to do when it comes to suspending your disbelief for a movie. Yes, And then they break the fourth wall at the end. Yeah, yeah, all right, that's what I got for this one. Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas. I'll say all of them. When I say happy holidays, I mean every holiday at this time of. Year, So you know, Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas everybody.

52:11 And thank you for having me here, Jim, It's really great to be It's always great to have us on this. How where can people find. Josh Amazing, j rab Instagram, sebas. I am Sebastian underscore brand Blon I G I. Am at the Jim mcdiana on those social media This show with fifty percent of facts. Percent is a word and fifty is just numbers. Fifty percent facts of the speaker of my podcast, association with our media on the Obscure Celebrity Network, And very likely the next episode will drop in January because I'm going on vacation later