Rewind: Dr. Andy Galpin on Cold Plunges

0:10 Welcome to the third rewind episode. This in this string of fifty percent facts where we're looking back to some previous episodes while I am away on vacation. This particular episode is from March of twenty nineteen, so about four years ago. Ish um with doctor Andy Galpin talking about uh. He was specifically talking about heat and cold shock proteins. The the cold plunge has not gone away in the last four years, and it's probably gotten more popular, probably gotten more popular, I jells Galpin, Yeah, and so is Galpin. Yeah, you just had a big series on the Huberman podcast. A friend of ours or in the industry for a long time. I think we first probably cross paths with him because he dabbled in the CrossFit space with some nutrition and helping those athletes, and then he dabbled obviously he's just a high level coach and educator on all things fitness, but worked with MMA fighters and people similar in our circles. And he's meathead himself, so he you know, its very dedicated to the barbell in the gym. So we kind of cross paths with him that direction. But I don't think science has changed on this, So hopefully this is all still up to accurate, and Andy still backs it up because he is a good scientist and will maneuver his views as science unveils itself to us. Yeah, he's not somebody who locks into a particular view

1:44 and then expects that always to be the case. He's actually a good scientist who knows that everything is based on our current knowledge and not things we can't know or things that we can't be sure of yet. Yeah, quick synopsis of this bitch I talk about all the time, and people try to argue me because TikTok people are idiots. But the cold plunge is something great for recoverability. But often when you're training and something like a strength sport or any sport really is what we're looking for his adaptability, and that may blunt some adaptations on hypertrophy and endurance, et cetera, et cetera. So cold plunge and he chalks a little different. But cold plunge in particular has many applications, but it's just majority of folks are using it incorrectly. Yeah, there are people who are using it very with a religious fervor that I don't understand, But that's true of almost every trend in fitness is that somebody has adopted it, adopted it as a religion, and it's just a little like gate keepee elitists. It's kind of like the grindset folks that just like kind of a tough guy deal or like an elevated sense of self. I cold plunge, and therefore I am more spiritually whatever. I did see an influencer yesterday talking about how she uses cold plunge to like make her nervous system more resilient, and I don't think that that's necessarily what it does, and it's not really the it's not really why you're doing it. I think the cold plunge

3:15 when I read people do content on it's very similar to CBD Circle, Like twenty fifteen, We're like, and we had another great episode if you guys want to scroll back. I don't think we're revamping this one with Eric Helms on how to spot a gimmick. I feel like we should put that one out of every quarter. Yeah, it's pretty good because it's just stands the test of time, where like when one thing fixes thirty things, right, everyone's like cold plunge benefits or like my mental health. Okay, I would never argue that, right because if it makes you feel good, it makes you feel good whatever, then it's like immunity. Then it's like CNS, resilience, endurance, recoverability from my muscles. The toughness against the list goes on for like twenty things. You're like, there's just no shot, like because then you're superman. So you sit in ice and now you're for man.

4:00 And some of the same people who are are talking about coal plunge and they are talking about um hypothermic therapy shit like that, are the same people who are telling you that you don't want to ice your shoulder after your pitch or ice your you know whatever, because they are Yeah, it's the same thing. Yeah, it's the same thing. Like we are built on the prostaglandin as we create from from work, from injury, from all that stuff. That's how that's how our body recovers. The cold actually sort of inhibits recovery. Yeah, yeah, you want that inflammatory process to take take reins. But again, there is some benefit to it and it's just about when you apply it. And hopefully you can learn a thing or two from doctor Andy Gapin. All right, um Tuesday Friday is a topic thunder and then next week we're back. We're back with a fresh episode. As far as everything, I mean, as long as everything goes well and as long as I get back from like Europe and stuff. So all right, we'll talk to you next time. Turn a bunch of podcasts, A bunch of Crown Royal the other day. Oh yeah, way better than I remember, maybe just because I've been drinking jamison or something. It's not like a drink all the time, but like if we go out every other weekend, you know, it'd be like a jack and coke or something and then had a shot a Crown on the fuck. I didn't think I knew the differences, But when I took that crown, I was like, no, that's pretty good.

5:29 I haven't had Crown. I haven't had a whole lot of Crown, period, But that the Lexus lounge at the arena, Yeah it's decorated with Crown. Yeah. They do pretty good marketing, but they're they're like a higher end, right, They're kind of like the patrone. Like I know, patrons known as like a good tequila, but not if you're a tequila guy. It's not the best, not the best, right, but crowns like that, like if you're not a if you're not a whiskey guy, it's a safe, decent, decent option if you're not a whiskey guy, and they do some flavors and stuff like yeah, if you're into that kind of thing, and that makes it easier for you to get you know. I mean, this could be on the podcast I Guess Who was a fuck? But I took my first shot. It sounds crazy and it don't judge my parents, you fucking dickheads out there. My grandpa, I guess, was known for Crown royal, like I guess he maybe you drink it a lot, but I don't know my family. It's hard because my dad never drank really. I had wine with them like twice maybe um. And my mom never really drink. I think she had some beers here and there, but not like when I was a kid. I think when they just became parents, like they're kind of an old school thought and they're like, all right, we're not gonna curse anymore and we're not gonna do these things, which probably didn't end up great. Something fucked up. But so my dad never really drank, none of my aunts really drink, but a lot of their kids drank. They're all in you know, the Midwest. I think it's just a thing, right, you just drink a bunch of Budweiser all day every day. But my grandpa's funeral, I think I was maybe ten or twelve, and everyone's just fucking slamming Crown Royal everywhere, and so they gave me like one or two shots, fucking twelve year old, and I just remember like, oh my god, like you're drinking poison. That's when

6:59 it actually tastes like poison, you know, it does. Its tastes like that when you're a kid. You don't have the taste buds for it. My um my wife's family did the same thing when her grandfather died, and it but it was wild turkey, which really is like poison. Yeah, it's like yeah, it's like uh kerosene or something. Yeah, it's like really bad. Uh yeah, for sure, Yeah it happens. I don't know. But having crowned the other day, I was like, man, that's really ain't bad. And the other thing, uh it keep talking. We talked about taste buds all the time because we had my mom on here for olive oil. Guys check that episode in different things. And I don't know if it's genetics or who has good taste buds or not, but I think I had um okay taste buds considering my mom does it for a profession.

7:43 But the older I get, like, the more I think I love shit Like I like coffee, and I've drank a lot of coffee since I was probably twenty two or so. I started drinking a lot of coffee almost every day. But lately I've had coffee like, fuck, this is good. Like I always liked it. I always in like, all right, this pretty good. But same with like beers. I feel like, you know, you drink some bud light in college, you're playing beer pong and you're like, yeah, all right, it doesn't taste great, but I'm you know, I'm getting buzzed. And then you started like all right, I'll have one ipa a week and like, all right, this pretty good. And then you start to have like some good beers, you know, and you're just like, fuck, this tastes good. Yeah, yeah, for sure, smell this. We're getting back into Kerosten. What is this? All right? We got Glenn more More nGy yeah, getting MARENGUEI yeah, there we go. Highland single malt Scotch whiskey, the original perfected by the sixteen men of teen who were they ten years old. Yeah, I could give you a glass few to sidy you want. Why is it so light? Is that the thing? It doesn't smell bad? Yeah, this is my point exactly. It's all and it will be good if you taste it. I got a glass if you want it. I mean, I'll try it. I don't know about a whole glass that we're doing a drunk podcast. What are we talking about that we're talking about like infrared saunas and ship We need to talk about whiskies. That smells pretty good. I didn't think it would. I'm not a big hard alcohol guy. I'm not that big of a drinker. Again because my family really never really drank grown up.

9:01 And then you know, I just hear horror stories of cousins, friends or family friends being an alcoholic. So i'd get a little I'm not scared of it, but just I just just a little bit. I definitely have an addictive personality, you know, and so like I always am watchful with what I do, you know, Like I got pretty addicted to lifting weights. I watched my line of taking performance ancy drugs or competing or dieting to you know, I always watched my line. I'm as as addictive as I am to things. I'm also just as um self aware, which has led me to knocket into drugs or other things. But I don't drink a lot of hard alcohol'll drink a beer. I'll drink a wine. If I'm trying to like drink and chill, maybe a gene tonic or some bullshit. But this does smell like sweet. Yeah, and it kind of is, you'll hopefully. My guy Ryan, my boy Ryan, he's a little bit younger than twenty six, twenty seven, but he's insanely into whiskey. I went to his apartment in UH in San Diego, and he has like an entire wall of like the most expensive whiskeys you've ever seen. Like he collects somebody drinks something. He knows the name. He probably knows this, Like he's he's just a big nerd. Oh. Yeah, I mean it's good and he's not gonna check your face off. Yeah, that's the issue of sweetness.

10:20 It's yeah, I mean it's still alcohol, but still alcohol. Like if you never had whiskey and you had that, dude probably be like, I don't know, but if you've had like, like I said, like a little bit of jamison or jack, which I don't mind. I like a little Jack and coke here in there, but like you have that and you're like, oh fuck, I think jack is a great mixer. Yeah, I think. I think it's a rough go. Yeah, what do you do? Yeah? What do people do? Just throw this thing on ice and sip away. I like this glass too. Uh yeah you can, you can't. If you like ice, you can, or you can you know, a little splash of water yeah, sometimes water deal, yeah, or just just just still water. Even alluring complexity. I want to be a marketing guy for one of these things. They fucking crush me too, and the flavor changes a little bit while um little air. Yeah, a single malt whiskey of exquisite finesse and alluring complexity. If anyone in the world ever explained me that way my personality, Oh my god, what I feel good about myself? Me too? Goddamn alluring complexity me too, um, which I haven't eaten today too. I'm about to be hammered drunk for this. For this podcast, we poured just a just a tiny bit.

11:28 But I walked into the grocery store in my neighborhood the other day. It was a Sunday Sunday, and they were doing tequila tasting and they're like basically handing me a shot. When I watched, it was kind of like, all right, okay, I'm going I'm off to it. I was going to a you know, forty three year old man's laser tech birthday party. So yeah, tequila sounds perfect. Tequila, yes, just actually, can I get that to go? Yeah. My mom's not huge into drinking, like I said, but she's, like we had her on the podcast, really big into alive oil and all these things, and she's now just dove in because she trained your Palette a little bit obviously for a specific thing, but she's dove into like chocolate tasting, coffee tasting. I think she might have done tequila or whiskey, even though I don't think she really likes either of those. But like it's kind of like you find it. It's kind of like powerlifting, like all right, like I squad a five hundred, Like let me go to flip this tire. Now like I built some strength, Like, let's go fucking right, So I think testing kind of kind of. I think she's like, all right, I got this palette, I can find some flavors. Let's go see what these other experts are doing with this other cool shit. Right, Yeah, I'm gonna try a clean and jerk out of nowhere or something. No. I can totally understand that um completely off of this topic. But it did something that happened. And now that we're we're both in the same jim, but not all at the same time. Again. I was in twenty four probably two weeks ago with Chris and we're walking through the cardio area and I look over and there was a guy on the stepper and I could have sworn to God that he was eating a sandwich. I've I've seen some weird shit in in there. Yeah, including the annoying thing of people taking the elevator. Yeah. Yeah,

13:03 is so me and gym work out at a commercial gym that's dead middle of Sacramento and all those Sacramento and the scheme of things is pretty small. We're looking this up. The other day, it was what's la four million people or the Bay Area I think it's for three million something like that. Sacramento is like five hundred thousand, and that's with our suburbs. But we are the capital of California, and so we do have a decent downtown. Now it's growing a lot. A bunch of new projects are popping up, lift and right, hotels, they just announced the soccer stadium got the green light. They just announced a whole new area. And we lived at a gym that's literally what three blocks from the capital, and so people are they fly in and out all the time for capital work. Obviously half a block from the arena. Yeah, right next to right next to the King's Arena, and so there's stuff going on everywhere. So you get a real mix of characters in there. Yeah, um, from probably some senator I've never heard of, politician, lawyer guy to you know, maybe a half homeless guy.

13:58 You know, like there's stuff. Yeah, absolutely, I think that that's a strategy for homeless people, is that you pay for a gym membership, see you guys in place to take a showering from teeth and all this stuff. And you will occasionally see people like I don't understand the brushing of the teeth in the gym. I don't get it. I don't understand shaving things in the gym, in the list shower almost person I don't understand that, but I see it all the time, even the shower, Like I do understand the shower, but it's just not for me. Like I guess if I'm commuting an hour and I've never had to do that right Like, but I'm always the guy that sometimes I shower before workout. I like to shower. It's just a routine I built in from life, a shower right before an event. So I showered right before a basketball game. Although it seems counterintuitive, it just wakes me up. Showered right before this podcast, shower right before I stream, right before a YouTube video or whatever, just wakes me up. And but then after the gym, I'm just driving home.

14:48 I understand if you have to go to work out the work like, I get that thing, but I don't want that. I want to feel comfortable. I don't want to have to worry about focuses on my feet. I don't have to worry about you know, the shower curtain. I don't. I don't know. It just all feel it's kind of grind me to me, Jim shower seems sketch Jim. Um. So that's what that's what my story is leading into this next topic. We're talking about infrared saunas. Yeah, I think saunas in general, and then maybe ice baths. We're gonna talk to Andy Galloping about all these things. He's kind of studied them in some of their benefits. But my first experiences were at a commercial gym. But gimming, I feel like in two thousand, you know, nineteen ninety nine to two thousand and five was a lot less common. There's less just people into fitness. And then two the gyms I went to were commercial in a way, but they were local commercial. There's only like six of them, um, and so me and my friends or we go to my friends like club he was part of, like a tennis club, um, which sounds like super fancy for those that've never been one. But there's tons of different styles of them, you know, Like it's not like fancy golf club. Like it's still maybe a couple of hundred bucks a month, but it's not insane, so it's nice, but it's not next level, and we're just like work out or play basketball and then we thought like a steam room or sauna. It was cool, you know, like he just hop in there, you sweat a little bit, it feels kind of nice on your skin. You get to relax and you just kind of nick around a talk. Um. But yeah, this Downtown one I've won. I've been I've been having an urge for a sauna one because I've seen some of the information coming out on it too, because I do find it very relaxing and I think it feels good to sweat mentally, I feel good. But I have nowhere to go because they're just so grimy, and I don't not only

16:19 like the actual grimy, because who knows who's been there in the wood and the moisture. It just feels a little weird with strangers and then two um leaving, you know, you're leaving all the dripping with like I need one at home. Uh. And I know there's some pop up ones and yeah that nature yeah, but I don't know until they sponsor this podcast, I'm not getting one. I think the Durettes have one at home, yeah, um yeah no. And and for me, I think that like early on those dry sun it's just like, well, like how long can you stand it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it turns into a little bit of a guilt game. But now we've got people who were taking ice baths in their converted chest freezer, or they're going to these cryos centers that cryos popped up. That's another question. I guess we could ask and grab because everything I've read on cryo is pretty false. Yeah, I from my personal perspective, you several years ago, probably six seven years ago, I was having a tendon problem in the back of my knee and I was willing to do anything to try to solve it, and I ultimately got PRP which helped.

17:26 Yeah, but I bought a group on package from one of those cryo places and basically, instead of doing a full body thing, I said, you know, like, how many times could I come back for this spot on the back of my calf? It was really cold and it would it would feel better for an hour or so afterwards, But it wasn't. It wasn't sustainable at all. Yeah. And I think a lot of Andy's talk and what we'll probably dig into this podcast is just like general health recovery things of that nature within for RED, but like it's a whole other conversation. We're gonna have another guest on soon that might have some topics on this, because I know for a long time there was like pop doctors and hospitals and whatever would kind of have one path, and then like chiropractors, acupuncturists, pts would have another path, but just hot and cold therapy in general for more like a dedicated location like you're talking about for injury long term short term how to kind of treat those things too might be a topic we dive into.

18:23 And the first time that I heard Andy, I guess when he was on Rogan was maybe the first time I really heard him. We were talking about, you know, heat shock and cold shot proteins and that's kind of the real questions, like is that something we should be concerned about and what do they mean? And we should be should we be stimulating them? And then I saw just the other day them talking about that if you have a routine around heat or cold or contrast showers or whatever, so that you're doing it all the time, maybe your body stops, yeah, producing these adaptations, Yeah, because it adapts too soon. And I think too. On top of that, what's the actual not what the benefit is, but what percenta is actually gonna help us, right, because we could talk to somebody who loves fucking creatine and they're gonna tell us all these benefits to creatine.

19:11 But at the end of the day, like depending on how you adapt in some genetics, like it's given you a point five percent boost in your best cresh, like it's really not doing that much over time, And so is this something that it's fun and it's exciting to find new information on things that might help that show a real positive result in anything, because there are so many BS products and BS supplements and BS routines and all the you know, tummy tucks and diets, and there's so much bullshit out there. So when science can prove and our experts really believe in some kind of modality, it is insanely exciting. But at the end of the day, if you can't you know, have a balanced diet, if you're not going to the gym consistently five times a week, if you're not consistently getting your sleep in, if you can't put this whisk down, if you have all these other issues, do you really have to worry about this cold tub and infrared and and people always say, we're like, oh, well, maybe our best athletes.

20:07 Our best athletes have the same issue we do. Michael George Will supposedly a freaking alcoholic. How many people in the NBA do you think actually get the sleep they need, in the nutrition they need. I don't think they do. So should they, even Dwayne Wade and Lebron James be worrying about this tub or or should we worry about these other things first? Because you can't really put a percentage on the benefit of good nutrition in sleep because it's everything. And so I love that that Andy and these guys are excited, but I'm really interested in, Yeah, what kind of the shock you know, heat protein may be involved, what it may actually do because I've also heard this talking about we had another muscle fiber episode talking about growing new muscle fibers or converting I believe actually muscle one and two, Yeah, with PDS is possible, and some of these therapies might do. But what percent is it actually going to help me? Because we have so many other issues to cover? Yeah, exactly, and it and is it a psychological thing?

21:08 Right as part of a larger plan? Do people need ritual sure around it? To help them reinforce their good habits, which which is great. Right. If I go to the gym, I do my sam I'm MMA fighter, I do all my grappling, then I go do some cardio. I come back, I do some striking, and then I do some lifting weights and then I'm hopping in a sauna and I feel relaxed, and I know my day's over and it's time for me to go to bed afterwards. Hey, power to you, Right, everyone needs a routine like that. My routine right now is you know, similar wake Up Jim Cardio Emails podcast. If we have it work, if I have it stream for six hours, and then I got to get my one episode of Netflix in and when I know what I turn I know when I turn on Netflix, like all right, it's almost bedtime, and then my routine's ready, and then I could fall asleep. If I didn't have that, I couldn't fall asleep, and if I didn't get my sleep, I'm fucked up. I'm sure we could run some kind of study that shows Netflix helps my recover. Why, because it's built into that routine, right, So I want to know, Um, what what what? Yeah? What what? What? Scientifically percentage is this needed? And then who should maybe even pay attention to this? What?

22:11 What what small percent or large percent of common athletes should be paying attention to something like this. That's a good question, all right, I think we're going to jump in with doctor. I know you like to sit in um in extremely cold water sometimes, and I know you like heat sometimes. And you were the first person I ever heard use the expression or the terms heat shock proteins and cold shock proteins. What what are those? And does your body stop reacting if things like ice bath or dry sun or whatever become part of your routine. That's really good. Heats and cold chocks rotes.

22:55 That's actually funny mention that I am eight to twelve inches right now away from my high spot. Yeah, just happy to be standing here when you ask that question. So it's very interesting. But those two cameras are it was I know it was you, and I said earlier, taught to you guys. Now. The proteins are one of the few in molecular biology that are named after Poe was The naming actually makes sense to the function. So it is a heat shock protein. This is a protein that responds to ready for it ready for it. He fuck, let me go back to school, damn. And cold is no different. So if you shock or stimulates the body with these temperature vertivations, these proteins become activated. After that, they have a whole host of downstream responses and activities. And this is actually goes back to our conversation regarding that I've been fasting, where we talked about it popage a bit and the fact that it doesn't molecules, proteins, gene cells, they don't have a single function, and so people like to bastardize them by saying things like O, M tour causes muscle growth, or testosterone causes muscle growth. No, one of the things testosterone does. It's caused muscle growth. It also does a thousand other things, heat, choking, cold chock proteins are the same way. And so you could say, okay,

24:29 turned on my HT chock protein and that is associated with an increasing pestopagin. Well, sure, but it's also associated as a whole host of other things just a couple of steps away from M tour. For example, M tour is one of the signaling proteins that causes muscle growth. A couple of steps away from that it actually blocks muscle growth, and so the same exact thing is both increasing mgcusing imits. It just turns out that in that case the net is almost always muscle growth. Well, cold hitt check proteins are a similar thing. We are far more ahead and our understanding of things like mTOR and most of the growth that we are things like patchock broting school chock protein.

25:11 The vast majority of research is still in animals, rasp earings or cell culture. We have some good evidence in humans, but we don't understand those things for the level we do things like multiple growth inst So there's still a good information in there, but that's along with addanding. Does your body's reaction change if that becomes a regular thing? Did you stop provoking the reaction? So I actually forgot to say this, And we're also talking about interming fasting, but this is I am in disagreement with many of my contemporaries, friends, colleagues, and business partners on this topic. So internet and fasting may kick off cematology or some other things. I'll say increases the fat book, but this is simply mostly due to either is an overall calory restriction. So the amount of autophagy or antiimploamatory processes to something like am in fasting. We don't yet know if that is because of innament and fasting or is simply because you reduce calories. We know the vast majority of benefit from intimat fasting is explained almost fully by fast all and so if you're able to put someone to an intervention who loses twenty pounds of fat, that is going to be so much more important for anti employamatory autoplogy cancer prevention than the amad fasting one.

26:30 So I'm not saying there's nothing at all special vitament fasting. There may very well be. It could be, but it's the uniqueness of intimat fasting. It's probably pales in comparison to the overall effect of coloric restriction or the overall effect of reduction of body effect. Well, the same thing applies to the thermal treatment. So if you are consistently getting extremely hot and extremely cold, you're no longer going to activate these shock proteins the same extent that you did. If you look at all the literature on these crminal stresses, a huge percentage of them that are inhuman, which is also a small percentage of the overall literature. The huge percentage of those are very very short durations, typically two weeks or and they typically do interventions like okay, you spent a total of two hours a day in the ice for thirteen days or something extreme like that. We're like, okay, I get it to show mechanism, to show concept here, but this is not how people use them. And what happened after a couple of months when you got used to it, well, it's no longer. It's a bit of a shock. Now I have had this nice bath in the back of my house for a couple of years.

27:41 Now I can still tell you and critically, every time I get in that twenty age of the water, it's still fucking cold. Ella said, like, oh feels like a long bath. That shit is cold as hell. But yes, of course it will be deminished. So I do not think we should be in most situations I spapping every day. You don't. I don't think we need to heat every day. I'm also not as nearly as big as pauna the sauna as other people are, especially for my fighters. If I don't know if you guys have ever done jiu jitsu, but if you put a gee on and do an hour a half of jiu jitsu, it's easy. They'll lose five seven pounds of water easy. I don't think there's anything magical to the sauna. I think the magic comes in being hot for a long time and sweating a lot. I think there are some unique physiological benefits who simply sweating a lot, And so for those individuals, I'm like, no, we don't need to sauna. Most of the time.

28:38 You sauna three times a day basically, now you can just move around. However, yeah, I have worked with many peoples, business executives and things like that where I'm like, hey, you know what, I know you only exercise once a week. If we do pop in a sauna a couple of the times a week, that might be really, really really good for you because I know you aren't doing anything else. Or hey, you can get in, then let's do one of your meetings in the sauna. I'll take great, I'll do that. Well, that that's a win, So I think it's a good. My grandpa, you said, my grandpa, get a sign. I know he's not going to exercise. He's never ever exercise. I don't know what to do. It would be so hard to get a start. He doesn't live in the same state as me. I can't be there to help him. So I'm like, hey, it's gonna sign. I get him, know, three or four times a week, and he gloves so to me, I think that will actually have huge impact from itself. But there's there's something that's very, very different in giving something to an eighty five year old who does an exercise and thinking that's going to carry over to a twenty seven year old powerlifter man. Oh, come on, we gotta we gotta express a little bit of critical thinking skills. What I know you said, there's probably not a lot of research or pure definition on the human for the hot and cold protein shock proteins. But if you were to do an extreme amount within one or two weeks, perhaps for extra recovery or whatever. Oh yeah, what what I mean? There's probably not a percentage involved. But is it something more like supplements like all right, this I might feel like the smallest boost ever like creatine, Or is this going to feel and make a real difference in my forms of recovery? It could dovolve I will using for sure a lot I got you know, three fighters competing the next handfle of weeks, and I'm trying to get them all

30:10 in the icepast three times a week, I would say, six days a week, but they won't do it, so from fighting for two or three. So no, I think it's just like I can't even fast. I'm not against it at all. I'm for proper use very close to competition. I think it's a very very good time to go ice fast every day. If you can't, it didn't sucker all the time, right, It's only going to help. How much will it help, Well, sort of depends on the person and support and stuff. But yeah, I think during those days of time, it's probably a noticeable improvement. Yeah, but it probably won't hurt if you're applying it correctly and kind of only doing it during the most intense part of training camp kind of deal. Oh so that's where I disagree. So you think it will hurt if you do it in training camp with you, well, now we'll scape. So now you just maybe I misspoke, Maybe I misspoke. Go ahead, because let's remember if we're blocking inflammation and are blocking stress, well, those are the signals that cause adaptation, and so I would not do things like an ice spam. I would not take anti inflammatories or antioxidants or extremely high anti accident how foods. You're fine, but supplementation during an intense part of training camp because the point of intense training is to induce adaptation, and if you then circumvent that recovery process, we block those signals to adapt. Now, when you rephrase the question,

31:45 you said at the end of training camp, but then I agree with you. So if it's during your accumulation phase or your adaptation phase, and I don't think you want to go excessive recovery, I would say the same thing for Norma Tech, the same thing for Mark pro or any of the immortalities. If you're trying if the point of your training is to induce and accumulate stressors, then don't circle vent that by cutting out the stress. But at the end of your training camp and you're very close to competition and you're not now accumulating stress and now you're trying to peak, this is when you want to roll out all these recovery strategies. That makes sense. I've known more than one powerlifter, probably more than dozens of powerlifters who relied very much on any inflammatories in the course of a training cycle because they were just in pain. And I never really understood that because they are not getting that adaptive response, right, I mean you're blocking it. Well yeah, I mean, now keep in mind you always have to take it in context. So if there's so much pain that you're like, well, okay, if I don't take these, I can't train today. Yeah, okay. Well, if you've blocked ten percent of the adaptation by taking ad Bill, well, ninety percent still higher than zero percent from not training, right, So it's it's there's always a pro given a take here, right, So you can't take that and go too far with it. So it's kind of a balance.

33:12 It's like, we can I get away with it today? Yeah? I think I can skype by Okay, go ahead, and now I can't. Okay, well, then go ahead and slid it up. And can we use another trick? Can we do something else? Can we extend our warm up? Can we do um uh? Can we do a massage? Can we do a different exercise variation that doesn't explain the place so bad? If those aren't an options, then maybe you all that Bill and get going. Just just gears another thing that's come up to us lately. We wouldn't pitch the idea of doing something on hot yoga. Um, what about we're we've been talking about like sitting in a sauna and uh, not exercising while just sitting. And I understand that this is probably a case where context is important. If someone is um, someone is actually active and then they're using you know, sitting in a dry sauna and that's one strategy, or if they're using something like hot yoga, I'm assuming those things are going to be different. Yes, it depends on which marker you're talking about. So if you want to look at like heat shock proteins, that's that's in the scriminal It doesn't matter it eat. Hot proteins is something to be activated by temperature, so it'll get to that temperature however you want. Won't mask other differences that would be something like well, you know, actually it's better for the joints. Potentially you can also work on a little bit shold disability versus just

34:44 sitting there and not doing anything. So it would be the other benefits that would be the difference. But yeah, the marker you're looking at, But for heat proteins, literally just temperature doesn't It doesn't matter if it's dry, sauna, whatever, steam room like you mentioned, maybe jiu jitsu, whatever it might be. It's just kind of getting that temperature up and the internal temperature not there. Tempatrue's get hot, if you get super hot, don't matter loss hanging out in Sacramento and one hundred and ten degree what the other summer? Yeah? Yeah, I mean if you're down in Louisiana and it's September and you're wearing forty pounds of football gears like you, don't think that's activating in tact fourteens come on now. So that's what matters. The internal temperature train hots your body getting that's what kicks them on and cold. So let me ask you this question. If you're sitting in an ice bath, how long do you have to be there before it starts affecting your core temperature.

35:42 There's several trials have been done on this, and we have run some initial pilot experiments here with them. It depends on the temperature of the ice bath. If you're sitting in a fifty five fifty to fifty five degree bath like most athletic training facilities and places like that, keep their spat. You don't have to be there quite some time for before you'll notice measurable changes in the court temperature. Having said that, we've seen some pretty fast drops and body temperature in the sub thirty degree water. It's not uncommon for us to see something like almost a degree per minute. So you start spending five six degrees in there, it's not going to keep going at that rate, but certainly a degree every couple of minutes can happen. So you can get pretty damn cold internally, pretty damn fast in sub thirty three water. It's it's different than fifty five. You can be there for quite some time. What about these cryo chambers, Yeah, so they're not going to do much for internal temperature, that's kind of thought. Yeah, so I'm not saying they're useless. They seem to be potentially equally effective for reducing multiple sorenas, but the if the anti inflammatory aspect, the other potential benefits probably cold check protein and certainly internal temperature. They don't stack up at the cryos relative to cold water immersion, so I typically don't recommend them unless it's a convenience issue or

37:12 personal preference, or if you're there for the sake of must of stones, anything, cold water, anything you think we missed in terms of sawn on hot water or cold water. Best loads man loads of it. But we can only take so many bites at the apple at a time. At some point, I've got to get some work done today. Absolutely, well, we definitely appreciate you being on man. How can people find you? Yeah? Sure, you can visit my social media Twitter and Instagram at Grandy gallupin and you can check out my YouTube channel and my website andygalpa dot com if you want to get your learn on and see what's the kind of stuff I teach in my university classes about strength, conditioning, program design, nutrition, next days muscle physiology. I got a whole bunch of free videos up on the website and Patreon and call o the place so to search the Googles.

38:02 I'm easy, here we go, all right, thanks a lot, Eddie, Yeah, thanks for your time. You got a guy. I am the Jim mcdeon all the social media's Mike is silent Mike with two kage. You can find the show fifty percent Facts on Instagram and Twitter. Percent is spelled out like a word. We'll be back next week.